January Transfers and Rumours

[Nippy Naylor]

2 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

As posted on the relegation watch thread, I think this window raises broader questions as to the value that Flitcroft is bringing currently.

I'm in favour of the DoF model - I'd happily see us appoint another one if 'Flickers' were to go.

Since he's come in, I'm not sure we've ever massively overachieved our budgetary constraints - using average attendance as a very rough measure (which I accept ignores the likes of Salford), we've never really finish above our average attendance position - finishing 5th with the 4th highest attendance in 21/22, and 18th with the 14th in 22/23. We're currently 20th with the 15th.

DoFs are supposed to bring stability, a continuity of a style of play, and long-term planning in recruitment, yet we've signed 50+ players in less than 3 years, have radically (and perhaps unsuccessfully) changed playing style, and have faffed about on deadline day for the 2nd year in a row and missed out on the DoF's own publicly stated targets - and that's ignoring the clear due diligence mistake with Williams.

I saw that Barnsley appointed their first Sporting Director (same as DoF), and they were assisted by MRKT Insights in the process (who consult with us). They had 300 applicants, with the final shortlist of 10 being 'exceptionally talented'. We'd get similar amounts if we advertised for a new DoF.

Food for thought, in my view. It's inarguable that Flitcroft has been bad for PVFC, but is he the best we can get in his role? Recent evidence suggests probably not.

Obviously this comes a week after I posted a list of positives about the club, and I stand by them, but this window has been such a mess it's led me to question how much control they've really got.

We did alright without a DOF when Micky Adams was gaffer , can we start a campaign to bring back Micky 🙏# Great bloke & man management was different class 👍

[eh up nah]

14 minutes ago, Nippy Naylor said:

What's the point of a manager then

Flitcroft may as well pick the team and set the team up week in week out then , mate 

In my view, that's pretty much what happens.

[Warren]

On 03/02/2024 at 11:56, Nippy Naylor said:

What's the point of a manager then

Flitcroft may as well pick the team and set the team up week in week out then , mate 

You obviously need an organisation structure that is adequate for all the functions that need to be carried out. The manager manages the team and relevant media work etc. Quite clearly there is a much bigger body or work than that and which needs overall oversight. Honestly, set aside the fact Port Vale is a football club, and many businesses have what would often be called Director of Operations. They sit alongside the Director of Finance, Director of Sales et al and work to the Managing Director / Owner in overall charge and responsibility. 

Edited February 5 by Warren

[Smallthorne clampet]

5 hours ago, Brian Johnson said:

If Crosby is a nodding dog and is basically a YES man, then he's not strong enough to be a manager

Head Coach should be his correct title , a Manager manages all aspects of the football club , which Crosby cant do with a DOF above him in the pecking order .

[Shropshire_Valiant]

1 hour ago, Devine intervention said:

Who are those free transfer players without a club 

Connor Wickham 

Dwight Gayle 

Who else as if Vale want to make things right they have to add one of these especially if it's true they didn't get paperwork done on time which looks like was the case as everyone was high fiving as thought deal had gone through .

Would I take Gayle of course I would just needs get his goalscoring touch back ,he does well in  Black and White .

As for Wickham he as a certain excellence about him .

Think someone mentioned more Gsry Madine springs to mind and two others let's bring all to ground and see who wants it the most 

UTV 

The issue(the club will see) with Wickham and Madine is they've been 'out of work' since the summer so may not be match sharp/fit unless unbeknown to us they've been training elsewhere and keeping fit themselves? 

How I'd look at it is if a player is the "fox in the box" type like Lee Hughes surely they'd have that knack of scoring a few goals even if the rest of their game needed work fitness wise, got to be worth asking the question of a few on the list as you say?  Even some of the foreign ones, you can only ask the question if they fancy playing for an English 3rd tier side, some won't be interested of course but could find a gem you never know.

[Smallthorne clampet]

2 hours ago, Bede said:

If we get relegated we will have endured similar on the pitch performance, with ground facilities for the fans worse than under his tenure.  Add to that we owe the Shanahans double what Smurthwaite left for.

So far, the only tangible improvements are crowds are up and the Lorne Street corporate side has undergone extensive revamping.

Football wise, we've barely moved.  And that's a sad indictment when you consider Smurthwaite was bleeding us, but the Shanahans are not.  They need to strongly reconsider their areas of investment.  

Port Vale FC is a football club first and foremost.  Not secondary.  <ovf censored> primary.  People purchase tickets to see the product on the pitch.  And right now that is terrible, and is becoming increasingly neglected.

Spot on .  

[valeparklife]

1 hour ago, Nippy Naylor said:

What's the point of a manager then

Flitcroft may as well pick the team and set the team up week in week out then , mate 

This is an outdated view of football.

The DoF + Head Coach model exists everywhere and a lot are very successful. It promotes consistency and continuity.

Best way to describe it is to imagine a club had Arsene Wenger as manager, and then Tony Pulis.

Wenger would sign loads of 5'4 technically skillful players, then when Pulis comes in, he sells the squad and replaces them with loads of 6'5 neanderthals.

Extreme example, but you get the point.

Having a DoF oversee the playing style/recruitment avoids this.

Think of Brighton - Potter leaves, De Zerbi comes in like nothing has changed.

Same for Brentford - Dean Smith leaves, Thomas Frank steps up.

The idea is correct for us, but the execution isn't going so well so far. Crosby isn't the manager to take us forward.

I support the model, just not the personnel.

[The man in the pub]

5 hours ago, Brian Johnson said:

If Crosby is a nodding dog and is basically a YES man, then he's not strong enough to be a manager

As its a first appointment as Manager Im sure that was the lure. I bet Crosby puts up with way more than an experienced Manager would just so as he can have that Job Title on his CV.

[JoeB2]

11 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

This is an outdated view of football.

The DoF + Head Coach model exists everywhere and a lot are very successful. It promotes consistency and continuity.

Best way to describe it is to imagine a club had Arsene Wenger as manager, and then Tony Pulis.

Wenger would sign loads of 5'4 technically skillful players, then when Pulis comes in, he sells the squad and replaces them with loads of 6'5 neanderthals.

Extreme example, but you get the point.

Having a DoF oversee the playing style/recruitment avoids this.

Think of Brighton - Potter leaves, De Zerbi comes in like nothing has changed.

Same for Brentford - Dean Smith leaves, Thomas Frank steps up.

The idea is correct for us, but the execution isn't going so well so far. Crosby isn't the manager to take us forward.

I support the model, just not the personnel.

Isn't going from a direct, up and at'em style to a posession style exactly what we've done? Clarke -> Crosby (in style) is not a million miles from Wenger -> Pulis. 

If Crosby is sacked and we're bang in trouble, will we go for another possession-heavy risk or go for a big character (like DC) to beat the drop?

Edited February 3 by JoeB2

[matmat]

4 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

 

Food for thought, in my view. It's inarguable that Flitcroft has been bad for PVFC

 

I'm as unhappy with how this transfer window as ended up as anyone. I can't believe we've got to the end of the window without signing a recognised striker or wing back. But stuff like this is nonsence. It's unarguable that Flitcroft has been bad for PVFC?? We are in a higher division, and yes, relegation is a really worry given our January business, but we are still high odds on to stay up this season, we have 4 or 5 of our own youth players in and around the first team, and we've sold 3 youth players for a combined fee of somewhere between 500k-1m depending on which fees you believe. So there is plenty of arguement that he is doing ok.

 

3 hours ago, Bede said:

If we get relegated we will have endured similar on the pitch performance, with ground facilities for the fans worse than under his tenure.  Add to that we owe the Shanahans double what Smurthwaite left for.

So far, the only tangible improvements are crowds are up and the Lorne Street corporate side has undergone extensive revamping.

 

 

There are loads of other improvements around the club, the pitch is way better, the PA system actually works, the new scoreboard is a great, the fan zone is a great addition.

I'm fuming about the transfer window, but the overall trajectory of the clubs is upwards. There have been mistakes and blips along the way. We are going into a massive month for the club starting today at Fleetwood, we've got 8 games in Feb with most against teams involved in a relegation battle, it's imperative we pick up a good haul of points this month. And we go into the month with key, experienced players injured and 4 new, young loannes who we currently have no idea how well they will adapt to our club or L1 football. 

We really need to get behind the players this month, I really don't want to feel the toxicity and negativity I'm seeing on here at the ground. The transfer window is done now, get behind the lads and lets get the points on the board we need to stay in this division, then we can address wtf has happened this window and how we ensure it doesn't happen again in the summer.

[Nippy Naylor]

11 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

This is an outdated view of football.

The DoF + Head Coach model exists everywhere and a lot are very successful. It promotes consistency and continuity.

Best way to describe it is to imagine a club had Arsene Wenger as manager, and then Tony Pulis.

Wenger would sign loads of 5'4 technically skillful players, then when Pulis comes in, he sells the squad and replaces them with loads of 6'5 neanderthals.

Extreme example, but you get the point.

Having a DoF oversee the playing style/recruitment avoids this.

Think of Brighton - Potter leaves, De Zerbi comes in like nothing has changed.

Same for Brentford - Dean Smith leaves, Thomas Frank steps up.

The idea is correct for us, but the execution isn't going so well so far. Crosby isn't the manager to take us forward.

I support the model, just not the personnel.

That's a good post that is mate 

[JoeB2]

Just now, matmat said:

We really need to get behind the players this month, I really don't want to feel the toxicity and negativity I'm seeing on here at the ground. The transfer window is done now, get behind the lads and lets get the points on the board we need to stay in this division, then we can address wtf has happened this window and how we ensure it doesn't happen again in the summer.

I think the team needs to win more than 11 of the next 48.

There's a reason fans are disenchanted. 

[Nippy Naylor]

1 minute ago, JoeB2 said:

Isn't going from a direct, up and at'em style to a posession style exactly what we've done? Clarke -> Crosby (in style) is not a million miles from Wenger -> Pulis. 

If Crosby is sacked and we're bang in trouble, will we go for another possession-heavy risk or go for a big character (like DC) to beat the drop?

Would rather see a big character come in

[philmpv]

We did alright without a DOF when Micky Adams was gaffer , can we start a campaign to bring back Micky # Great bloke & man management was different class

We did. Quite selective though. You forgotten about Bruno, Brown, Aspin, Gannon, Foyle, Glover and Askey? We've achieved more with a DOF than we did with any of those combined. The problem isn't DF. It's injuries. Simple as that.

[matmat]

2 minutes ago, JoeB2 said:

I think the team needs to win more than 11 of the next 48.

There's a reason fans are disenchanted. 

Yep, we definitely do. So, let's get behind the players and encourage them to get those wins, it probably makes it more likely than booing them onto the pitch!

I get the disenchantment, that transfer window was a joke. We have made progress over the last 5yrs, we've made less progress over the last 12mths than any of us would like, but it's imperative that we stay in this division this year and then we address the reasons for the disenchantment.