DCs comments on Stoke

[mr.hobblesworth]

It's becoming so bland. The creativity that it was so well known for doesn't seem to be there any more. Can't remember the last decent band that came from the city; maybe if they could stop patting themselves on the back about groups from 30 years ago, they might realise that a huge influx of rich people and an exodus of younger creative people isn't going to do it any favours. It's still ok but it just feels so different nowadays. Places like Huddersfield and the Calder Valley seem to have much more going for them nowadays.

[NorthwoodValiant]

1 minute ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

It's becoming so bland. The creativity that it was so well known for doesn't seem to be there any more. Can't remember the last decent band that came from the city; maybe if they could stop patting themselves on the back about groups from 30 years ago, they might realise that a huge influx of rich people and an exodus of younger creative people isn't going to do it any favours. It's still ok but it just feels so different nowadays. Places like Huddersfield and the Calder Valley seem to have much more going for them nowadays.

Well yes, but that's just the life cycle of cities, it isn't a run down northern shithole now, it's a metropolitan area, people move there in their hundreds of thousands, it makes sense that Huddersfield is doing what Manchester did, because that is a northern shithole! 

Also, do any good bands come from anywhere anymore? Music has moved on (sadly) nobody learns to play the guitar anymore

[mr.hobblesworth]

There are loads of good new bands around - even the stuff I don't like is still interesting.

I think a city has a real problem when families who have lived there for generations are having to move out. 5 years ago, the wait for social housing was 2 or 3 months. Nowadays it's at least 6 years. Meanwhile, the council approve the demolition of decent habitable accommodation so that developers can build luxury flats. Manchester is going to be a Mancunian free zone in the not too distant future; can't think of any other cities (including London) where that's the case.

Did you see Manctopia on BBC? It's well worth a watch if you can find it anywhere. Only the trailer left on iplayer now.

[NorthwoodValiant]

12 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

There are loads of good new bands around - even the stuff I don't like is still interesting.

I think a city has a real problem when families who have lived there for generations are having to move out. 5 years ago, the wait for social housing was 2 or 3 months. Nowadays it's at least 6 years. Meanwhile, the council approve the demolition of decent habitable accommodation so that developers can build luxury flats. Manchester is going to be a Mancunian free zone in the not too distant future; can't think of any other cities (including London) where that's the case.

Did you see Manctopia on BBC? It's well worth a watch if you can find it anywhere. Only the trailer left on iplayer now.

I don't really watch TV so I didn't see it. But yeh, I can see things demolished for luxury flats, but like I said, it's the place to be, i you can sell flats for a million each, you would

[mr.hobblesworth]

It's so shortsighted and stupid, and the crappy Labour council are going along with it all. "Sir" Richard Lesse getting a big hard on because the skyline resembles New York's, but nothing about the huge issues impacting on the many vulnerable people in the city. Everything that made the place unique is getting washed away. It might be the place to be now but it's certainly not going to be in a few years.

[toyahw]

1 hour ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

People will probably disagree with this but I think Manchester has really lost it's way. Feels like 'normal' people are being squeezed out and so many of the places that made the city so interesting and, ironically, popular are now redeveloped for the wealthy. There's no affordable housing and the disparity between the wealthy areas and the impoverished ones seems to be widening. I bet in a few years you'll see places like Bury, Rochdale and Oldham getting all spruced up.

That is a fair point, I think.  Drive by the Hac... now a bunch of flats. It does seem to have lost its soul these days, 

[Bycarsbill]

14 hours ago, Dr Delgado said:

Why?

Wouldn't be a much better and more pleasant world if we just backed our own favourites team?  Why hate any other team? Obviously every genuine fan wants their team to do better than other teams, but PV & Stoke aren't even in the same division!  Let's cut out the hate and just love our own team--probably a much too idealistic wish in football.  Other sports manage to live in closer harmony than football--look at the Horlicks that the FA/Premier/EFL made over the decision to not have any matches over this last weekend.  Racing, Grand Prix, Rugby & cricket all managed to respect the passing of The Queen without any problems!

[Wrex]

Did DC complain about hoe Manchester is becoming too gentrified or have we gone a bit offtopic here? 😝

[Dr Delgado]

51 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Wouldn't be a much better and more pleasant world if we just backed our own favourites team?  Why hate any other team? Obviously every genuine fan wants their team to do better than other teams, but PV & Stoke aren't even in the same division!  Let's cut out the hate and just love our own team--probably a much too idealistic wish in football.  Other sports manage to live in closer harmony than football--look at the Horlicks that the FA/Premier/EFL made over the decision to not have any matches over this last weekend.  Racing, Grand Prix, Rugby & cricket all managed to respect the passing of The Queen without any problems!

There was a context to the question, mainly in response to the senseless vitriol emanating from a certain group of our fans in relation to the McCarron loan signing. The passion they were showing in objection appeared to outweigh their love or support for our club. In isolation the question may appear ridiculous but there was a narrative that you have clearly missed.

[valeitup]

1 hour ago, Wrex said:

Did DC complain about hoe Manchester is becoming too gentrified or have we gone a bit offtopic here? 😝

I think DC said something about Manchester being home to globally recognised classical and jazz musicians, as well as an epochal underground electronic music scene, all of which demonstrates a break from the guitar brands and house producers that defined its recent past in the national consciousness. He might also have mentioned that the gentrification of the city centre, Ancoats and the south of the city has pushed poor-but-creative types into areas of Salford and east and north Manchester where there is still a significant amount of "edginess". Surprisingly well-informed, I thought.

[For Us All]

On 09/09/2022 at 18:15, Biddulph_PV said:

I agree with DC and @Powerline. The simple truth is that Vale fans of my generation (mid 40’s) will never see Vale as a ‘bigger’ club that Stoke. Fact.

What defines a ‘big’ club?? For me it is consistent gates of 10k-plus (irrespective of league), also what you might take to Wembley on a given day and what you would pull in for a big ‘one off game’.

We’ve at 4 trips (including Cardiff) and taken 28k, 11k, 15k and 18k. Had Stoke been at Wembley in May, they’d have taken 30k+. We couldn’t even get 10k Vale fans into the ground vs Swindle.

All this is because they have been far more successful down the years, plying mainly the 1st and 2nd divisions, whereas we’ve been perennial strugglers living hand to mouth. They therefore became the defo facto choice for the majority of the Staffordshire natives who understandably preferred to watch Stoke vs Best, Law, Charlton than Vale vs Newport County. 

It will take a monumental, Man City-type investment and decades of relative success for us to reverse this, plus a ban of gambling companies involvement.

Look at Man City vs Utd. There is a running joke that all Utd fans are from London, but the fact is that even with Utd where they are after a decade mismanagement, every game is a 73,000 sell out and they have a season ticket waiting list as long as your arm. I’ve seen reports that in Greater Manchester there are 9 United fans to every single City fan. You hopefully get the point.

The trajectory is definitely upwards for us but what DC said is bang on the money for me.

I think money also plays a massive part in defining a 'big club' these days and the club in the southern part of the city has vastly under achieved considering their wealth.I remember seeing Vale do the double over Man.City in 1998,ten years later the Citizens get new owners and the rest is history.

[manc_vale]

On 09/09/2022 at 18:15, Biddulph_PV said:

Look at Man City vs Utd. There is a running joke that all Utd fans are from London, but the fact is that even with Utd where they are after a decade mismanagement, every game is a 73,000 sell out and they have a season ticket waiting list as long as your arm. I’ve seen reports that in Greater Manchester there are 9 United fans to every single City fan. You hopefully get the point.

Don't disagree with the majority of the post. And I understand the sentiment behind the above. 

However, as a Manchester resident I would argue the 9 united fans to every City fan... City thanks to massive on the pitch success but also to a brillaint community program have claimed a lot of local support. In particular putting City coaches into schools for PE lessons has had massive success. I live only 2 miles from the United ground very much in the Red side of the city, and still the local primary schools are now full of City supporting kids. They have won over the next generation of Manchester based fans. Whilst United still have the cash thanks to existing fan base and lots of support worldwide, city are amassing the next generatiom of local fanbase and no doubt winning lots of new fans around the world with what they are doing on the pitch.

Completely agree that for Vale to do something similar would take massive investment and lots of time, but in a smaller way our progress and Stokes continual languishing in the bottom half of the championship losing more games than they win will bring some new supporters to Vale Park.

[Bycarsbill]

3 hours ago, Dr Delgado said:

There was a context to the question, mainly in response to the senseless vitriol emanating from a certain group of our fans in relation to the McCarron loan signing. The passion they were showing in objection appeared to outweigh their love or support for our club. In isolation the question may appear ridiculous but there was a narrative that you have clearly missed.

Then I think we're more aligned on this subject than I thought was the case--I apologise for any misunderstanding.  Up the Vale!

[fuzzyvalefan]

You only have to look at the improved gates this season and the number of families you now see at Vale Park to know that we are doing a good job at increasing the fanbase