Brexit again...

[geosname]

3 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Please post just one of the articles then.

 

We'll see if Parliament resolves the brexit issue by 17th October. When they haven't I'll expect that you will admit I was right and the prorogation changed nothing.

 

 

Whether the act of proroguation affects brexit is as you suggest yet to be seen..... but it did change other things.

[Bycarsbill]

On 27/09/2019 at 17:48, Bycarsbill said:

Because he thinks that would be a safer option presumably.  However Labour's policy on Brexit is still as confusing and opaque as it ever was, so one wonders what their manifesto would spell out and what they would be pushing for during the campaign?  To leave? To remain?  Or as they have done all along....sit on the fence?  It really is an intriguing and for Labour, a dificult dilemma!

 

On 27/09/2019 at 18:44, mr.hobblesworth said:

It's not confusing and I don't get why people keep claiming it is. We want a deal with his 'five pillars' - the customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights  the Good Friday agreement - and he will then present that to the electorate with a simple choice of accepting it or remaining.  Whether Labour officially campaign for or remain neutral is irrelevant as if we remain neutral, it means MPs/ candidates can campaign for whichever side they believe in.  So, Labour's position is new deal and then 2nd vote.

I wish I had your rose-tinted specs!  1) How are Labour going to get another deal? 2) Even if the EU contemplate another negotiation (IMO very doubtful) 3) How long would that negotiation take? 4) Assuming a new deal (Santa Claus is real??) what will Labour then do if they put it to a 2nd vote--campaign for a deal or campaign to remain like the vast majority of their members want them to? And yet you suggest it's  not a confusing position--those specs must be really good!

[Andyregs]

The only party to be crystal clear on their stance for brexit recently has been the Lib Dem’s. 

He problem is people voted for pie in the sky, or with no idea at all, and it’s left politicians on both sides torn between a rock and a hard place.

[geosname]

10 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

The only party to be crystal clear on their stance for brexit recently has been the Lib Dem’s. 

He problem is people voted for pie in the sky, or with no idea at all, and it’s left politicians on both sides torn between a rock and a hard place.

First paragraph 100% agree.

Second paragraph 90% agree because that's how it's portrayed and thought of.

Politicians built the rock and the hard place so no sympathy.

I tried to keep it short

[Valiant in Brum]

On 28/09/2019 at 12:40, Howjy04 said:

Labour create a mess every time they are elected.The current shower have policies that will make a No Deal Brexit a Godsend.The UK voters will see them for what they are,Policies for the Fairies,grabbing ****ards.Who ,in their right mind,will invest in UK companies if Labour get in.If people want high inflation and rising unemployment,vote Labour.Make no mistake,everybody would be paying their share,everybody!!

Yes as the Tories have had a cracking 9 years in power. The standard of living was alot better all around under Labour before. For me I am a centrist btw.  

[Andyregs]

38 minutes ago, geosname said:

First paragraph 100% agree.

Second paragraph 90% agree because that's how it's portrayed and thought of.

Politicians built the rock and the hard place so no sympathy.

I tried to keep it short

David Cameron’s Tory party built the rock and hard place with a badly thought out referendum. 

[geosname]

They initiated it but they weren't the only ones who wanted it, jezza and others did too..... they are all politicians.

Cameron screwed up as the figurehead , the party and opposition fell in line to some extent.

Bad decision to call the referendum, bad decision to answer an incredibly complex question with a stupidly simple yes/no answer, bad decision to vow the result would be honoured in manifestos,  bad decision to let may negotiate, bad decision to enact article 50, incredibly bad decision to take no deal from the negotiating table, bad decision after bad decision..... all made by..... politicians.

A pox on them all

[Andyregs]

7 minutes ago, geosname said:

They initiated it but they weren't the only ones who wanted it, jezza and others did too..... they are all politicians.

Cameron screwed up as the figurehead , the party and opposition fell in line to some extent.

Bad decision to call the referendum, bad decision to answer an incredibly complex question with a stupidly simple yes/no answer, bad decision to vow the result would be honoured in manifestos,  bad decision to let may negotiate, bad decision to enact article 50, incredibly bad decision to take no deal from the negotiating table, bad decision after bad decision..... all made by..... politicians.

A pox on them all

Which other party had a referendum in their manifesto apart from UKIP and conservative. 

[geosname]

5 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

Which other party had a referendum in their manifesto apart from UKIP and conservative. 

None as I recall but Labour vowed to honour the result if I remember correctly.

Which is immaterial to the point that the bad decisions were made by politicians

[For Us All]

25 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

David Cameron’s Tory party built the rock and hard place with a badly thought out referendum. 

Under much pressure from Ukip who were gaining ground in the polls.

In my opinion it was the right decision to hold a referendum in 2016.In 1975 we joined a football club and over 40 years it slowly turned into a hockey club.It changed from being a common market with 9 member states with a 250 million population into a political union with 28 member states and a population of 500 million.Successive treaties since 1975 had transferred more powers to Brussels and there were calls for another vote because of these widespread changes.

[Andyregs]

5 minutes ago, geosname said:

None as I recall but Labour vowed to honour the result if I remember correctly.

Which is immaterial to the point that the bad decisions were made by politicians

So as I said, the situation I was referring to was created by David Cameron’s conservatives. 

[Andyregs]

1 minute ago, For Us All said:

Under much pressure from Ukip who were gaining ground in the polls.

In my opinion it was the right decision to hold a referendum in 2016.In 1975 we joined a football club and over 40 years it slowly turned into a hockey club.It changed from being a common market with 9 member states with a 250 million population into a political union with 28 member states and a population of 500 million.Successive treaties since 1975 had transferred more powers to Brussels and there were calls for another vote because of these widespread changes.

I’m not really arguing that point, though I do think that people weren’t knowledgable enough to make such a massive decision. If such a change was important, people should vote for a party manifesto with a well laid out plan. We have seen that even the party who spent years fighting for this didn’t even have that. Nothing but ‘brexit means brexit’. The yes/no question with no plan for the outcome was the biggest problem. 

[For Us All]

6 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

I’m not really arguing that point, though I do think that people weren’t knowledgable enough to make such a massive decision. If such a change was important, people should vote for a party manifesto with a well laid out plan. We have seen that even the party who spent years fighting for this didn’t even have that. Nothing but ‘brexit means brexit’. The yes/no question with no plan for the outcome was the biggest problem. 

Easy in hindsight Andy?

[Andyregs]

7 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Easy in hindsight Andy?

No. It was their jobs! 

The main reason i voted remain was not out of some chest thumping emotional attachment to the EU, but because it was madness to vote leave when we had no idea what that entailed, considering the country wasn’t is dire straights at the time. That wasn’t hindsight just common sense. Which is why it needed to be via parliament not referendum. 

[Howjy04]

1 hour ago, Gallifreyan Valiant said:

Yes as the Tories have had a cracking 9 years in power. The standard of living was alot better all around under Labour before. For me I am a centrist btw.  

9 years of mopping up after a Party who spent money that they hadn’t  got,GV.I am a Centrist also,a Conservative one .The alternative is back to the Winter of Discontent.