Brexit again...

[Heatwave]

A leader who has a strong will and understands the strong will of the people will be able to put pressure on MPs to fall in line.

 

The MP's know she's weak and that empowers them. If a leader was appointed who understands that people actually want brexit and has the character to tell the EU that they can **** right off then the MP's will finally understand that this is not going away.

 

Not going to happen, no matter who the Tory leader is. The current crop of Conservative (and, indeed, Labour) MPs are independently minded and will follow their consciences rather than any party line, particularly on Brexit. If the likes of Johnson or Rees-Mogg come in throwing their weight around they'll just drive a third of the Parliamentary party into the ranks of Change UK.

[Bycarsbill]

I agree. I don't think the current position should be the one the party have, and do believe that they should be slightly (only slightly, mind) more open to a 2nd vote.

 

Either way, for the Euro elections, Labour has no alternative but to take one or other of these positions. They cannot, as they have done successfully so far,and remain in the middle of the argument. I guess it will come down to how strong the Labour party's leadership is. They (Corbyn & McDonnell)are by instinct anti-EU, but your membership is vastly in favour of EU membership--so there's that dichotomy once again! Who said it was just the Tories who have a split party? Interesting times for us political 'geeks.'

[Fosse69]

Either way, for the Euro elections, Labour has no alternative but to take one or other of these positions. They cannot, as they have done successfully so far,and remain in the middle of the argument. I guess it will come down to how strong the Labour party's leadership is. They (Corbyn & McDonnell)are by instinct anti-EU, but your membership is vastly in favour of EU membership--so there's that dichotomy once again! Who said it was just the Tories who have a split party? Interesting times for us political 'geeks.'

Big factor could be the turnout, why bother, what will it prove? Do you vote for a remain party and ignore the major parties?

[mr.hobblesworth]

What were the reports in the Sunday Times this morning that may have stopped the talks between Labour and the tories?

[Fosse69]

What were the reports in the Sunday Times this morning that may have stopped the talks between Labour and the tories?

Details of confidential talks leaked in the Sunday Mail?

[mr.hobblesworth]

Yeah, I don't think the leaks were as explosive as I presumed. Doesn't look like the deal they're working towards will ever get a majority in the house. I don't actually think any deal will get a majority without the proviso of a 2nd vote.

[For Us All]

A second referendum is pointless,the losers will just demand a third?

[TheSage]

The odd thing was that before we had the referendum the EU was I think 8th or 9th on voters' priorities and not a major issue really. It came miles behind concerns for health, education, crime, homelessness, housing, etc.

But I suppose the far right have been hankering for a fight ever since the nineties and all of a sudden it's become blown out of all proportion.

Very few people were talking about the EU three years ago. Immigration perhaps but not a lot else.

[Fosse69]

A second referendum is pointless,the losers will just demand a third?

Not if the conditions of the confirmation referendum say that it is the last referendum ever to be held until the voting system in the UK has been changed and the Lords abolished.

[Fosse69]

The odd thing was that before we had the referendum the EU was I think 8th or 9th on voters' priorities and not a major issue really. It came miles behind concerns for health, education, crime, homelessness, housing, etc.

But I suppose the far right have been hankering for a fight ever since the nineties and all of a sudden it's become blown out of all proportion.

Very few people were talking about the EU three years ago. Immigration perhaps but not a lot else.

The trouble is once a can of worms has been opened it is difficult to be put them back. The Brexit vote aftermath will last at least 10 years, either we stay in because the 60% vote differently and Farage rambles on until the generations change, or we leave and the trade dispute and austerity carry on for the same period of time, not a welcome prospect either way.

[Fosse69]

Yeah, I don't think the leaks were as explosive as I presumed. Doesn't look like the deal they're working towards will ever get a majority in the house. I don't actually think any deal will get a majority without the proviso of a 2nd vote.

 

Problem is the voting system, we have probably 5 philosophies spread over 2 and a bit parties with a voting system built for 2 parties, which gives a majority from less than 30% of the electorate.

[Bycarsbill]

What were the reports in the Sunday Times this morning that may have stopped the talks between Labour and the tories?

 

Watching John Mc Donnell on the Andrew Marr show, it looked to me as if he was giving Labour a 'get out of jail' card should they wish to extricate themselves from being seen to do any type of a deal with the Conservatives.

[Regal Beagle]

Well UKIP got over 26% of the vote in the 2014 EU elections and 16% in 2004.

 

Significant numbers.

 

Very strange to try and pin this on the far right but I suppose you are all obsessed with everything left of Corbyn being the far right nowadays.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Watching John Mc Donnell on the Andrew Marr show, it looked to me as if he was giving Labour a 'get out of jail' card should they wish to extricate themselves from being seen to do any type of a deal with the Conservatives.

 

Totally. It feels like Labour keep inching towards finding a way to leave but then the clamour from the membership pulls them back to a 2nd referendum. They're in a really difficult position and I think that they need to firmly state that they'll go for a vote even if it does anger vast swathes of their support. Looking at it from a 'healing' point of view, I think the best option would be a 2nd vote that Leave won. Despite being a remainer, I feel an increasingly amount of sympathy for those who want to leave (apart from some of the witless arses on here), even if I vehemently oppose many of those people's political views.

[For Us All]

The odd thing was that before we had the referendum the EU was I think 8th or 9th on voters' priorities and not a major issue really. It came miles behind concerns for health, education, crime, homelessness, housing, etc.

But I suppose the far right have been hankering for a fight ever since the nineties and all of a sudden it's become blown out of all proportion.

Very few people were talking about the EU three years ago. Immigration perhaps but not a lot else.

 

Have you ever thought that may'be ordinary people thought they should finally have a say in things that were affecting their everyday lives,caused by our membership of the EU?