Brexit again...

[For Us All]

I don't think the Irish border was considered a problem until the EU made it a problem.

 

The Irish border is a trap created by the EU.

[Jacko51]

The Irish border is a trap created by the EU.

 

Tell me more? What was supposed to happen with it when Leave won?

 

And as I asked previously, what else did the Leavers want?

[Fosse69]

The Irish border is a trap created by the EU.

Only for the DUP, a border in the North Sea is not a problem, NI is not the same as the UK, it has different abortion laws for a start

[For Us All]

Tell me more? What was supposed to happen with it when Leave won?

 

And as I asked previously, what else did the Leavers want?

 

After we won we expected common sense after the Irish and UK governments,as well as EU had all stated that they did not wish for a hard border in Ireland.

 

This Withdrawal Agreement*stops*us negotiating and agreeing new trade deals, within any Transition Period and limits us even further if the Backstop is implemented.

Donald Trump has already stated a Free Trade deal between the UK and the USA would not be possible if the UK signs up to the WA.

 

We are handing over £39billion for what appears to be a guarantee of*nothing*in the future! We were told this would be seen as a ‘goodwill payment of debts’ which we supposedly owe the EU! Yet we have seen none of this goodwill from the EU’s side in return.

 

We would still be required to follow through with ECJ rulings on*our own*laws.

So, without any say over the European Court, this country would, in effect, be a ‘vassal’ to the ECJ and forced to accept the rulings of a foreign power after Brexit

 

There is nothing in the WA which would guarantee us the ability to ‘Take back control of our waters’. Instead we would be open to blackmail by France and other EU Member States who want access to our fishing waters in order to secure a broader trade deal.

 

Apart from that May's deal seems alright?

[Fosse69]

After we won we expected common sense after the Irish and UK governments,as well as EU had all stated that they did not wish for a hard border in Ireland.

 

This Withdrawal Agreement*stops*us negotiating and agreeing new trade deals, within any Transition Period and limits us even further if the Backstop is implemented.

Donald Trump has already stated a Free Trade deal between the UK and the USA would not be possible if the UK signs up to the WA.

 

We are handing over £39billion for what appears to be a guarantee of*nothing*in the future! We were told this would be seen as a ‘goodwill payment of debts’ which we supposedly owe the EU! Yet we have seen none of this goodwill from the EU’s side in return.

 

We would still be required to follow through with ECJ rulings on*our own*laws.

So, without any say over the European Court, this country would, in effect, be a ‘vassal’ to the ECJ and forced to accept the rulings of a foreign power after Brexit

 

There is nothing in the WA which would guarantee us the ability to ‘Take back control of our waters’. Instead we would be open to blackmail by France and other EU Member States who want access to our fishing waters in order to secure a broader trade deal.

 

Apart from that May's deal seems alright?

Makes the case to remain.

[geosname]

Makes the case to remain.

 

For me it starts to make a case to leave rather than remain.

We don't appear to be a valued member of a common good enterprise consisting of independent countries .... it smacks of a spiteful regime demanding connection and control of a member state for daring to threaten or question it's authority.

[geosname]

Tell me more? What was supposed to happen with it when Leave won?

 

And as I asked previously, what else did the Leavers want?

 

I think people thought NI would leave too..... as part of the UK.

Freedom from the European courts?

[geosname]

Personally I don't think Mays deal is a GOOD deal even without the border problem.

[Fosse69]

For me it starts to make a case to leave rather than remain.

We don't appear to be a valued member of a common good enterprise consisting of independent countries .... it smacks of a spiteful regime demanding connection and control of a member state for daring to threaten or question it's authority.

I doubt I will ever change from my basics views. United we stand divided we fall, Brexit to the advantage of Trump and Putin. Non-members cannot be better off than members, if the rules don't suit change from within. Physical trade benefits are inversely proportionate to distance. In practice why should a club change its rules to suit a member who is leaving, especially a member who does not wish to follow its 4 core rules. Thus compromise is impossible, all we are doing is kicking the can while businesses are re-arranging themselves.

[Fosse69]

I think people thought NI would leave too..... as part of the UK.

Freedom from the European courts?

NI could leave the UK. DUP antics could well hasten that.

[For Us All]

For me it starts to make a case to leave rather than remain.

We don't appear to be a valued member of a common good enterprise consisting of independent countries .... it smacks of a spiteful regime demanding connection and control of a member state for daring to threaten or question it's authority.

 

It's run by those who must be obeyed and that's basically why the majority voted for independence.

[Fosse69]

It's run by those who must be obeyed and that's basically why the majority voted for independence.

To be ruled by the US and the Eton toffs?

[Regal Beagle]

To be ruled by the US and the Eton toffs?

 

Well don't vote for eton toffs then and in what universe would we be ruled by the US?

 

If you are claiming there is a power imbalance which would negatively impact on our negotiations with the US, then surely you would apply the same principles to the EU?

 

 

In other news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47605767

 

A business that wants to ADAPT to SUCCEED rather than crying and whinging. The people of this country want brexit. If you want to continue to operate and make millions of pounds then be better for this country.

[Fosse69]

Well don't vote for eton toffs then and in what universe would we be ruled by the US?

 

If you are claiming there is a power imbalance which would negatively impact on our negotiations with the US, then surely you would apply the same principles to the EU?

 

 

In other news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47605767

 

A business that wants to ADAPT to SUCCEED rather than crying and whinging. The people of this country want brexit. If you want to continue to operate and make millions of pounds then be better for this country.

The toffs are already in Parliament and Trump is ready to put America First in our biggest export market outside the EU. We have fought our corner as a big nation during our time in the EU, the US is a much bigger dealer.

[Fosse69]

Well don't vote for eton toffs then and in what universe would we be ruled by the US?

 

If you are claiming there is a power imbalance which would negatively impact on our negotiations with the US, then surely you would apply the same principles to the EU?

 

 

In other news - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47605767

 

A business that wants to ADAPT to SUCCEED rather than crying and whinging. The people of this country want brexit. If you want to continue to operate and make millions of pounds then be better for this country.

The toffs are already in Parliament and Trump is ready to put America First in our biggest export market outside the EU. We have fought our corner as a big nation during our time in the EU, the US is a much bigger dealer.