Brexit again...

[bookworm]

I couldn't care less whether we go back in ,stay out under mays traitorous terms or just leave with no deal.Wont be concerned if that terrorist count corbyn gets in I'm just fed up with the self serving ******** who we the electorate voted in who have ignored the wishes of the electorate and put self before country,a bigger bunch of spineless cretinous tawts couldn't be found anywhere on these shores so **** the self serving ******** I vote for no ****** in the future.

[Heatwave]

I couldn't care less whether we go back in ,stay out under mays traitorous terms or just leave with no deal.Wont be concerned if that terrorist count corbyn gets in I'm just fed up with the self serving ******** who we the electorate voted in who have ignored the wishes of the electorate and put self before country,a bigger bunch of spineless cretinous tawts couldn't be found anywhere on these shores so **** the self serving ******** I vote for no ****** in the future.

 

Say what you mean, why don't you?

The only way out of this impasse is another referendum. The electorate are now fully aware of the implications of leaving with no deal and we can take the result as an instruction to the politicians. No one, Leaver or Remainer, can argue with that.

[Guest TommyMac]

Say what you mean, why don't you?

The only way out of this impasse is another referendum. The electorate are now fully aware of the implications of leaving with no deal and we can take the result as an instruction to the politicians. No one, Leaver or Remainer, can argue with that.

 

Please explain how a second referendum is the answer.

 

What if the result is the same? Do you really believe those that voted remain and lost would accept it and drop their objections to Brexit? I don't.

Will Labour, SNP, DUP, Lib Dems, PC, Greens, and the Tory EU supporters back down and support the May deal? I don't think so.

 

If the vote is reversed there will be a large number of the electorate who will lose all faith in the UK democratic system. A second leave or remain referendum followed by a remain win will result in a massive boycott of any future poll/election; a step towards autocracy at worst or 30% future election turnouts. Neither of these outcomes should rest easy with any UK citizen.

 

To those that claim a democracy gives people the right to change their mind, I fully concur but not before the outcome of a free vote has even been enacted. Imagine a Corbyn victory in the next General Election, would it be democratic if, 3 months later, Tory voters asked for another vote because they claimed people had changed their minds?

 

The only way forward is for Parliament to work together to deliver the will of the people from the referendum. If they are too imperious to do that then go back to the people with the option of May's deal or no deal.

 

Or, as Remainers are so sure people have changed their minds, how about a Remain/Leave referendum where a 70% Remain vote is required to overturn the original outcome.

[Erniemossrules]

Most people won’t bother voting if they have a second referendum because they haven’t upheld the original decision.

This will leave it wide open for allo allo you stupid woman Corbyn and a Sturgeon coalition to take over and completely ruin the country.

We are being held to ransom by remain politicians who don’t like the original leave decision made democratically to leave.

Does anyone know what Corbyn and his Momentum chums really have a policy regarding Brexit.He is sitting on the fence and changes his policy on a daily basis.Do you honestly think he is capable of negotiating a better deal.

If I am correct he is saying he would keep us in the single market which is not Brexit and similar to what Teresa May has negotiated.But he wants to vote against her deal for political gain to bring down the government.

I think most people are fed up of being dictated to by Politicians who think they know better that we did not know what they were voting for when they voted to leave when they did.

Actually it was to stay or no deal.

[Paul6754]

Please explain how a second referendum is the answer.

 

What if the result is the same? Do you really believe those that voted remain and lost would accept it and drop their objections to Brexit? I don't.

Will Labour, SNP, DUP, Lib Dems, PC, Greens, and the Tory EU supporters back down and support the May deal? I don't think so.

 

The number of people who vote in any second referendum and the way they vote will give the answer to those questions. If the 2nd vote is to leave then IMHO more of the country would get behind the government and support it.

 

If the vote is reversed there will be a large number of the electorate who will lose all faith in the UK democratic system. A second leave or remain referendum followed by a remain win will result in a massive boycott of any future poll/election; a step towards autocracy at worst or 30% future election turnouts. Neither of these outcomes should rest easy with any UK citizen.

 

Many people have already lost faith in the democratic process as the Leave vote was obtained on a campaign of lies, in particular on a significant reduction in the rate of immigration (Nothing to do with the EU) which isn't deliverable especially as the UK has just signed and endorsed the UN Compact on Migration.

 

People will always turn out for elections in similar numbers as in the past as the UK has a long tradition of democracy.

 

To those that claim a democracy gives people the right to change their mind, I fully concur but not before the outcome of a free vote has even been enacted. Imagine a Corbyn victory in the next General Election, would it be democratic if, 3 months later, Tory voters asked for another vote because they claimed people had changed their minds?

 

A 2nd referendum is better done before the UK leaves as the EU may not have us back and even if they did not on the same terms we have now.

 

If a vote was taken in Parliament and sufficient Labor voters voted with the Conservatives then yes that would be democratic but an unlikely scenario.

 

The only way forward is for Parliament to work together to deliver the will of the people from the referendum. If they are too imperious to do that then go back to the people with the option of May's deal or no deal.

 

Or, as Remainers are so sure people have changed their minds, how about a Remain/Leave referendum where a 70% Remain vote is required to overturn the original outcome.

 

What's on the table is not what Leave voted for and a Hard Brexit would be a disaster, all the experts who predict this cannot be wrong, we already see it in the drop in the value of the pound and less predicted UK growth.

 

Parliament can't agree themselves, whether they work together or not. Why not a 2nd referendum, it is the only sensible, honest way forward as now there is a better feel/knowledge for what a Brexit would deliver and that is to make many people in the UK poorer and possible Scotland and even Northern Ireland leaving the Union.

 

The UK hasn't seen anything yet in terms of political strife if a 2nd referendum is not held. What are people scared of.

[Guest TommyMac]

The number of people who vote in any second referendum and the way they vote will give the answer to those questions. If the 2nd vote is to leave then IMHO more of the country would get behind the government and support it.

 

So we go blindly into a second referendum not knowing if the result will be accepted or not? Sorry Paul but your humble opinion is not a solid basis to overturn a free vote, the outcome of which has not been delivered. I would say the chances of a second leave vote receiving more support are akin to Jeremy Corbyn telling the truth.

 

Many people have already lost faith in the democratic process as the Leave vote was obtained on a campaign of lies, in particular on a significant reduction in the rate of immigration (Nothing to do with the EU) which isn't deliverable especially as the UK has just signed and endorsed the UN Compact on Migration.

 

People will always turn out for elections in similar numbers as in the past as the UK has a long tradition of democracy.

 

Remain campaigned with just as many 'lies' as did Leave.

 

The UN Compact on Migration is non-legally binding and should not dictate a sovereign state's immigration policy. Interestingly, 3 EU member states voted against it, 5 abstained and 1 didn't vote.

 

It is up to our elected government to set out the UK's immigration policy and to adhere to it, failure to do so should be reflected in that government's support. That's democracy.

 

It is naive to assume that because the UK has a long tradition of democracy, the effect of non-deliverance of the referendum will not have a dramatic effect on future turnouts. I am only one of the electorate but, for me, a second referendum would be the nail in the coffin. I would never vote again.

 

A 2nd referendum is better done before the UK leaves as the EU may not have us back and even if they did not on the same terms we have now.

 

If a vote was taken in Parliament and sufficient Labor voters voted with the Conservatives then yes that would be democratic but an unlikely scenario.

 

The terms we have now are the terms that have been rejected by the UK people, why would we want to retain them? Future re-entry into the EU would be negotiated and a decision taken on whether those terms were sufficiently attractive to warrant re-entry. That's democracy.

 

What's on the table is not what Leave voted for and a Hard Brexit would be a disaster, all the experts who predict this cannot be wrong, we already see it in the drop in the value of the pound and less predicted UK growth.

 

1. Free movement of people. 2. Adoption of EU law. 3. Contributing to the EU. I believe these to be the 3 main aspects of membership that led to the Leave vote. Does May's deal deliver on those? Not entirely IMO but there has to be compromise in a negotiation doesn't there? Let's have a People's Vote on May's deal or no deal. What are people afraid of?

 

Of course the Irish border has, quite rightly, become a major factor in any deal although I doubt 5% of those that voted back in 2016 gave it any thought whatsoever.

 

Parliament can't agree themselves, whether they work together or not. Why not a 2nd referendum, it is the only sensible, honest way forward as now there is a better feel/knowledge for what a Brexit would deliver and that is to make many people in the UK poorer and possible Scotland and even Northern Ireland leaving the Union.

 

Why can't Parliament agree to work together? Elected representatives of the people working for the good of the people, how radical is that?

 

The Brexit you describe is uncertain but I will give you that it is a probability. Why? IMO because since 24th June 2016, when the result was announced the country (people and MP's) have fundamentally failed to back that result. They have fundamentally weakened the UK's negotiating position to an extent where we are left with a choice between a 'poor deal' that gives little to no future certainty and no deal. Well done people of the UK, you've been such an asset...... to Juncker and co.

 

You see, the people of Scotland had their referendum on leaving the UK and have been told they will have to wait for a second opportunity. How hypocritical to deny them that choice and then pander to those wanting to be part of the EU.

 

The UK hasn't seen anything yet in terms of political strife if a 2nd referendum is not held. What are people scared of.

 

The UK may well face economic strife but the UK hasn't yet seen anything in terms of political strife if a 2nd referendum IS held.

[geosname]

Brexit is like a fart in a lift.

You know it's there and what it is but you can't get away from it or avoid it.... trapped in a confined space with a noxious odour.... and no one seems to have the will to deal with it.... open the door on the next floor and let it out not extend the journey..... to January .

[geosname]

The "experts" tell us many things, the law of averages dictates some are right, therefore, logically, some are wrong.

The "experts" usually sit on both sides of the argument, for and against, therefore someone is always right, but not necessarily the experts we depend on when making our arguments.

[Fosse69]

Which is more democratic? For parliament to scrap Brexit or to have a referendum on it?

[Jacko51]

I will say it for the umpteenth time - we should never have had the first referendum.

[Regal Beagle]

Which is less tyrannical is the better question.

[Regal Beagle]

 

The UK hasn't seen anything yet in terms of political strife if a 2nd referendum is not held. What are people scared of.

 

A truly unbelievable post full of utter rubbish.

 

I've picked this line out though as the crowning glory.

 

I'll tell you what I'm scared of - A precedent being set whereby the Government can overrule a democratic decision because they want to.

 

You do realise that if you "win" on this one, we all lose in the most significant and horrendous way possible? This is bigger than being in or out of the EU. This is our constitution, our rights and freedoms and the restriction of our Government being able to abuse power and impose their will.

 

Stick your blue passport and gammon jibes. The choice of our Government now is democracy or the EU. It really is that simple.

[Fosse69]

I will say it for the umpteenth time - we should never have had the first referendum.

Agreed, it was only for party purposes not for the country, but the problem is once in a big hole how to get out of it. Parliament has the power having considered what Brexit entails, but has it the guts? The first referendum had an element of anti establishment/austerity against Cameron, in the second referendum this is likely to be against the current PM. Osborne is expecting an election and maybe a referendum so plenty of shovels to fill in or make the hole bigger.

[Fosse69]

A truly unbelievable post full of utter rubbish.

 

I've picked this line out though as the crowning glory.

 

I'll tell you what I'm scared of - A precedent being set whereby the Government can overrule a democratic decision because they want to.

 

You do realise that if you "win" on this one, we all lose in the most significant and horrendous way possible? This is bigger than being in or out of the EU. This is our constitution, our rights and freedoms and the restriction of our Government being able to abuse power and impose their will.

 

Stick your blue passport and gammon jibes. The choice of our Government now is democracy or the EU. It really is that simple.

More likely to be a parliamentary (sovereign) decision not a government decision.

[Jacko51]

A truly unbelievable post full of utter rubbish.

 

I've picked this line out though as the crowning glory.

 

I'll tell you what I'm scared of - A precedent being set whereby the Government can overrule a democratic decision because they want to.

 

You do realise that if you "win" on this one, we all lose in the most significant and horrendous way possible? This is bigger than being in or out of the EU. This is our constitution, our rights and freedoms and the restriction of our Government being able to abuse power and impose their will.

 

Stick your blue passport and gammon jibes. The choice of our Government now is democracy or the EU. It really is that simple.

 

Ireland must be the most undemocratic country in the world. They've had about four referendums on abortion.