Can Vale / Smurf learn something

[mr.hobblesworth]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the club that a proper manager couldn't cure . The fall in gates is no coincidence, I've spoken to enough stay aways to be absolutely sure what the problem is.

 

They may say that but I believe them to be liars. As many have said on here, people just don't seem to be able to admit that they don't want to come to Vale any more. After the football that we were serving up at the start of the season, any fan saying that they're not attending because of RP is either a liar or a liar.

[Spunk Trumpet]

Lot of rubbish talked about Pope on here. The supply to him over the last two seasons was pathetic , some of the crossing defies description and wide men rarely got to the by-line which is the classic way they should operate with a centre forward who is strong in the air.

 

I was at Bury and witnessed Pope first hand.

He was garbage and not worth the amount of money he thinks he is worth.

We saw the best of him 3 years ago.

[Yukon]

Be careful what you say , my father worked on cash turnstiles for many years.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the club that a proper manager couldn't cure . The fall in gates is no coincidence, I've spoken to enough stay aways to be absolutely sure what the problem is.

 

Ill-informed nonsense- AGAIN

[Fosse69]

Changing a football club takes time, remember "The man who never made a mistake never made anything". The ability to "Sort the wheat from the chaff" and to "See the wood from the trees" is also important.

[fairportnick]

We now have supporters telling other supporters what they know and think. If no one listens then nothing will change.

No one listened about V2001 until it was too late.

Live in your own fantasy world and see what happens.

[Grumpy Old Man]

To just put the poor gates down to the manager is ridiculous.There is a negative attitude coming out from the top.Wildes may have been full of s.... but people thought the club was trying to progress hence the gates towards the end of the promotion season.Blaming supporters has never worked and never will.Look at Pulis at Stoke he was forever praising the supporters and the result was supporters and local press believed him!

[Bea Smith]

bea,

 

thanks for the comments on ovf but i'm still not quite sure what point you're trying to make:

 

You say i've jumped in to "defend" ovf then defend the right of everyone to have an opinion. I thought my post was merely my opinion on ovf.

 

You say views should be "proportional" but why? As i said in another post above, what if the majority view is wrong and the minority one is right?

 

id say look at both. But on some things the majority may have to be given the decision just because it is the majority - sounds unfair at first, but consider if either the bycars or railway stand had to be closed for a certain match and 200 people said close bycars and 10 said close the railway.

 

Or if fans were asked whether only vegetarian food were to be served at the ground, and 98 per cent said no. I accept a brilliant idea may come from anywhere of course, maybe even a stoke fan posting on ovf or proposing it elsewhere.

 

to me it's simply about whether views and comments are useful to the club.

 

To me, that doesn't matter if a useful point comes from the 100 "prolific posters" on ovf, comes from praise and grumble, comes from a fan of another club or comes from the club itself - what counts is if the idea is valid or not, not that the "proportion" of fans hold the view or the range of fans canvassed for their opinions is a wide one.

 

I had a conversation with norman at a match sponsorship a while back and he pretty much said - some people do talk rubbish on your forum and i ignore them, but some talk sense and it's really useful to get some interesting ideas from so i'd be stupid not to look at it from time-to-time (sorry smurf if that's a bar paraphrasing of what you said). I think that's spot on.

 

i may be doing ns and others a disservice by thinking they may be swayed - but some people can post very strong points that actually have little value - a poster said last season he was not going to vale because page was manager, and this might be noticed at the club - in fact it is entirely possible that he wouldn't go anyway as the same poster rubbished gannon on his first day - maybe you could say he turned out right on that one, but it shows an intolerance and bias that is worrying if anyone takes notice of it. There may be 100 with the opposite view saying nothing, as your customer training proved. I will leave it on this one, looks like we will have to agree to disagree and i'm sure ns is savvy enough to not be swayed by such people, but some other readers may be.

 

does it really matter if it's the same 100 vocal fans, if from that mass of views, the odd idea put forward is really useful to the club?

 

not at all, and lets hope they do - but surely it is rational to believe that whilst taking note of the 100, you have more chance of good ideas if you have 4000 offering them. Of course it will never be 4000, but also of the 100 we are talking about probably only a small number are the constructive and progressive type of poster like the opening poster of this thread, quite a few will fall into the category of 'serial bickerer who posts 20 times a day' or the person who rubbished the opening post with 'what a load of nonsense' and wont offer ideas just negativity.

 

so my overall point is to get ideas from as many places as possible, i would say the ovf posters that offer ideas will be a rich source but there may be other places that spawn gems too, and to beware of the few, just the few, posters that are negative without offering any alternative - i once had a boss who said 'don't bring me problems, bring me solutions' which sounds harsh - but was really a shortened version of 'don't just moan if you cant offer at least some kind of alternative that is better'.

[butt lane vale fan]

I agree with some of what you say, however, the end goal is to increase attendances. The approach you take above is not constructive at all. The original post perhaps provides a closed question with the list of possible reasons for not attending. I'd leave it open for people that don't attend to simply give their reason, without the prompt.

 

Your responses to those prompts though Yukon, are typical of a business that refuses to listen and adapt. If your customers are shouting at you, telling you what their issue is, what you don't do is shrug your shoulders and simply say tough!! That's not to say that we should bow down to every request, no matter how ludicrous it may be.

 

I personally think that our whole approach to communicating to fans is dated. What Smurf has done in terms of keeping the club alive is amazing, I am sincerely, eternally grateful. However, I really don't think it would take much to change people's views on him. I will always encourage his honesty, but it's the delivery of his honesty that needs work. Do not underestimate the stubbornness of people from Stoke on Trent. If you tell us to do something, we'll often tell you to pi88 off. If you encourage us and entice us in without patronising us, showing a decent product is on offer, then there's more chance we'll respond positively.

 

Fans warmed to Paul Wildes. Why? His whole way of communicating to fans was spot on. We felt like we were following the best club in the world at times. We seemed to have a plan, every tweet or media release was positive, everything was geared up to the club making improvements on and off the field. Since Smurf has been in charge there have seen huge improvements; the club shop, the playing budget, the Robbie Williams suite, and now we've been told about the apartments and new concourse developments in the paddock. But the way Smurf communicates this to us, it comes across as confrontational. I've done this, what are you going to do? That's all well and good, but fans are under no obligation to attend. There are so many positive things going on around the club, we just need to be better at how we communicate with fans.

 

Thanks mate, thats the point I was trying to get across, although perhaps using the wrong words. Yukon and Guppy for England are clearly loyal fans and they do raise fair points about fans at all clubs moaning. However simply saying "Fans need stop moaning more and start turning up, doesn't alter the fact of fans not turning up. Same with Normans approach of waving a carrot and the end of a stick. It's been tried, did it work. No!!!!!

The question is why aren't fans coming and what can be improved to get them to attend?? Look at Peter Coates down Stoke, a few years ago they were struggling for fans due to the poor football under Pulis, what did he do. He personally got on the phone to them fans who hadn't renewed and asked them for reasons and what could be done to get them back.

It's frustrating because unlike Bratt and Co, at least Norman does put his money where his mouth his. Now think back a few years when we played Shrewsbury at Home, 8500 turned up for a night game. OK we were top of the League, however imagine if we could somehow increase our average. Again Norman has said loads of times, all money received will go into the playing side within FFP rules, so surely anybody who has Vale at heart should be going out of their way to turn up, as what bigger incentive have we got. The more turn up, the better quality on the pitch.

[Fosse69]

To just put the poor gates down to the manager is ridiculous.There is a negative attitude coming out from the top.Wildes may have been full of s.... but people thought the club was trying to progress hence the gates towards the end of the promotion season.Blaming supporters has never worked and never will.Look at Pulis at Stoke he was forever praising the supporters and the result was supporters and local press believed him!

Have I missed a statement by Page critical of the attendances?

[pjg1876]

Is this how to put a positive spin on things through the local newspaper ? They struggle to spell Crewe though.

http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/Come-Brewers-Burton-Albion-push-bumper-crowds/story-27899603-detail/story.html

[falmouthssoberist]

I agree with all of you, take a bow chaps

[Conrad]

I'm not convinced attendances are down that much at all, yes v Oldham it was pretty poor but all midweek games every where are lower than Saturday's hence £4 cheaper to get in a midweek game at Wolves

Now if they dropped to around 2000 ( I've seen lots of them in my time at vp) then that would be a time to worry.

[Yukon]

We now have supporters telling other supporters what they know and think. If no one listens then nothing will change.

No one listened about V2001 until it was too late.

Live in your own fantasy world and see what happens.

 

Keep your head in the sand, the only one missing out is you. I've seen the comments your nearest and dearest make, they're onboard! I'm not sure if your issue is Page or Smurf but it's one of them and the sad truth is, it's going okay and far better than last year. Your excuses for not attending have no legs

[fairportnick]

Your excuses for not attending have no legs

 

Never a bigger mistake was made in jest. I'm sure my nearest and dearest will tell you . By the way one of them hasn't been for over 12 months and another once in about 6 months!

The sad truth is I'm not missing it at all, something which has surprised even me.

[Eddie Hitler]

Smurf running out of cash, ideas and patience.

 

I have some sympathy for him but the fact remains, as it was 20 years ago, that there are less than 4000 Vale fans.