Evolution v Creationism

[SuperValiant1876]

This debate is something that has interested me for a while now.....are there any creationists on here? Or are they all in America.....

[Warren]

I certainly don't go with creationism American style and evolutionism is self evidently correct. However, the universe is a very big and complex thing and its language is mathematics. There is the driving force of mathematical pattern behind everything. This means that the existence of a creator is a valid theory alongside other explanations of how the universe came in to being and is sustained. There is an appearance of intelligence by chance or in actuality.

 

One theory about creation is the idea of computer development. At the moment we have games like Sims where programmed characters interact. If computer power advances enough and mankind can create characters in computer games that are sentient, then man becomes god. One has to enquire about what the nature of our brain is and its conscious and subconscious components. Just one theory.

[geosname]

Does it fascinate you in a general way or specifically?.... as in mankind..... or everything we know [or think we know] and everything we dont know.

The fascinating factor that interests me is why man looks for an explanation of/for everything.

In its simplest form each defeats its self..... for evolution to take place there must be something to evolve from.... and who created the creator of/for creationism.... because we dont know the answer we evolve theories to fill the blanks.

It was a fact that the world was flat.... until someone disproved it

The universe revolved around the earth was also an accepted fact.... for a while

Newtons law of gravity was unshakeable..... until someone shook it

Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light?.... well maybe it can.

What we think we know now is the accepted explanation to fill the void.... what we think we know tomorrow... etc etc

I dont buy the language is mathematics.... that may be the language we use to try to understand it or explain it.

[Pete T]

I certainly don't go with creationism American style and evolutionism is self evidently correct. However, the universe is a very big and complex thing and its language is mathematics. There is the driving force of mathematical pattern behind everything. This means that the existence of a creator is a valid theory alongside other explanations of how the universe came in to being and is sustained. There is an appearance of intelligence by chance or in actuality.

 

One theory about creation is the idea of computer development. At the moment we have games like Sims where programmed characters interact. If computer power advances enough and mankind can create characters in computer games that are sentient, then man becomes god. One has to enquire about what the nature of our brain is and its conscious and subconscious components. Just one theory.

 

Utter tendentious nonesense. I can't even believe i am biting.

 

Man created god thousands of years ago.

 

Maths just describes things. It is a tool for prediction. End of.

 

As ENGINEERS create better tools and machines we get a closer approximation to the "truth". We will never know everything, but we'll get close then die. As a planet.

[Pete T]

Does it fascinate you in a general way or specifically?.... as in mankind..... or everything we know [or think we know] and everything we dont know.

The fascinating factor that interests me is why man looks for an explanation of/for everything.

In its simplest form each defeats its self..... for evolution to take place there must be something to evolve from.... and who created the creator of/for creationism.... because we dont know the answer we evolve theories to fill the blanks.

It was a fact that the world was flat.... until someone disproved it

The universe revolved around the earth was also an accepted fact.... for a while

Newtons law of gravity was unshakeable..... until someone shook it

Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light?.... well maybe it can.

What we think we know now is the accepted explanation to fill the void.... what we think we know tomorrow... etc etc

I dont buy the language is mathematics.... that may be the language we use to try to understand it or explain it.

 

Not a million light years from my view. I would only reiterate that maths is a way of describing physical phenomena. As we observe these phenomena in better detail and with better accuracy........the math models have to adapt.

 

I totally love it when the smarty pants physicists / mathematicians bang out a new theory (good work!) and then some bloke (or lady) with a huge grant observes summat to make em go back to the drawing board.

 

There are already signs that some signals can overcome the speed of light. Check out New Scientist. It may be dodgy results, or self promotion, but Chris Neal is causing the traditionalists a lot of bother.

[geosname]

Not a million light years from my view. I would only reiterate that maths is a way of describing physical phenomena. As we observe these phenomena in better detail and with better accuracy........the math models have to adapt.

 

I totally love it when the smarty pants physicists / mathematicians bang out a new theory (good work!) and then some bloke (or lady) with a huge grant observes summat to make em go back to the drawing board.

 

There are already signs that some signals can overcome the speed of light. Check out New Scientist. It may be dodgy results, or self promotion, but Chris Neal is causing the traditionalists a lot of bother.

 

Im not convinced we will ever get near "the truth" Pete.... for all we have learned and all we think we know might be as much as a virus in a dish compared to what is beyond our reach and understanding... the truth seems to be what is accepted until someone proves another truth that discredits the first.

Until we can conquer speed and time I doubt we will see much further than we do now.

I agree regarding mathematics.

[Trampilot]

I used to work with a devout Christian who refused to believe that dinosaurs existed and believed wholly in creationism. He refused to debate.

 

However my wife also states that dinosaurs didn't exist but she's a mad atheist.

[SuperValiant1876]

Does it fascinate you in a general way or specifically?.... as in mankind..... or everything we know [or think we know] and everything we dont know.

The fascinating factor that interests me is why man looks for an explanation of/for everything.

In its simplest form each defeats its self..... for evolution to take place there must be something to evolve from.... and who created the creator of/for creationism.... because we dont know the answer we evolve theories to fill the blanks.

It was a fact that the world was flat.... until someone disproved it

The universe revolved around the earth was also an accepted fact.... for a while

Newtons law of gravity was unshakeable..... until someone shook it

Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light?.... well maybe it can.

What we think we know now is the accepted explanation to fill the void.... what we think we know tomorrow... etc etc

I dont buy the language is mathematics.... that may be the language we use to try to understand it or explain it.

 

I think what fascinates me is the creationists that only seem to try and disprove evolution rather than actually prove creationism. Obviously creationism can't be proved because it is a absurd notion that the earth is less than 10000 years old and we walked out of the lava as fully formed human beings. Also the book creationists refer to, the bible, has more holes in it's stories than potholes in Blackburn, Lancashire. The bible was wrong on astronomy, geology and biology so why must it be right on creation? Stories of Moses getting lost in the desert for 40 years, NOahs ark etc are clearly manifestations of imaginative shepherds 2000 years ago yet some modern people take these as absolute fact. Why? Evolution leaves so many question marks over religion that staunch Christians are scared of how little their religion now means in todays world. Faith is based on believing something with no facts to back it up, something I won't be doing.

 

I don't believe the clever man ever believed the world was flat either, that was the church...you only have to look in the sky, round moon, round sun, when there is an eclipse the earths shadow on the moon would also show it to be round. Also, ships masts appearing over the horizon before the rest of the ship appears would show an obvious curve , simple really, only the church wouldn't allow free thinking, in a sense they still don't.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I totally accept evolution

Totally accept dinosaurs came and went

I don't follow any religion and belive that the religion I know best (Christianity) is based on something (the Bible) which is not an in any way true account of what happened

I accept that over time science explains more and more of the universe and may one day explain everything

 

However, I don't rule out some sort of creator

[Andyregs]

It's always a strange debate anyway. Aside from the fact that creationism is certifiably bonkers, the Christians who attack evolution don't seem to understand what it is. That it doesn't explain where everything came from, just how species adapted, and that we didn't evolve from monkeys but a common ancestor. But since when did facts get in the way of such nonsense.

[geosname]

I think what fascinates me is the creationists that only seem to try and disprove evolution rather than actually prove creationism. Obviously creationism can't be proved because it is a absurd notion that the earth is less than 10000 years old and we walked out of the lava as fully formed human beings. Also the book creationists refer to, the bible, has more holes in it's stories than potholes in Blackburn, Lancashire. The bible was wrong on astronomy, geology and biology so why must it be right on creation? Stories of Moses getting lost in the desert for 40 years, NOahs ark etc are clearly manifestations of imaginative shepherds 2000 years ago yet some modern people take these as absolute fact. Why? Evolution leaves so many question marks over religion that staunch Christians are scared of how little their religion now means in todays world. Faith is based on believing something with no facts to back it up, something I won't be doing.

 

I don't believe the clever man ever believed the world was flat either, that was the church...you only have to look in the sky, round moon, round sun, when there is an eclipse the earths shadow on the moon would also show it to be round. Also, ships masts appearing over the horizon before the rest of the ship appears would show an obvious curve , simple really, only the church wouldn't allow free thinking, in a sense they still don't.

 

I think your last paragraph is inaccurate..... If you look at the sun or the moon you see a flat disk with nothing to suggest more.... you have answered the ship question yourself... the human eye can only see so far and what would be seen as a ship approached? the sails... not the masts not the ship or boat.... but what of the time before boats and ships?.... there wasnt a lot to suggest the world was anything but flat. We all know that water, given usual circumstances, finds its own level.... and yet it curves around the world.... if years ago people accepted this principal it would be an obvious assumption to make that the world was flat.

[Formby Valiant]

Now if there was ever a thread that you knew would end up in a row, this is it. I have my personal views, but not going to express them - no point. You'll never get to a conclusion.

[mr burslem]

This debate is something that has interested me for a while now.....are there any creationists on here? Or are they all in America.....

 

Something as beautiful as Boslem can't have happened by chance.............

[SuperValiant1876]

Now if there was ever a thread that you knew would end up in a row, this is it. I have my personal views, but not going to express them - no point. You'll never get to a conclusion.

 

 

It isn't for rowing or falling out. There already is a conclusion isn't there? Creationism is nonsense, Evolution is proven. It is more a question of why people still hold these medieval views in the 21st century.

[Valiant62]

I believe that on the sixth day God created all men equal, then on the eighth day he created Neil Aspin and Robbie Earle who begat Tom Pope.