Evolution v Creationism

[Andyregs]

What do you mean by infallible in this context?

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fallible?s=t

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infallible?s=t

 

That he is never wrong. Apparently.

[Andyregs]

Is it?

 

The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible..it forms part of the Christian Bible but Christianity is based on the New testament

 

The word "testament" means "covenant." The term "old testament" refers to the covenant which God entered into with Abraham and the people of Israel, and"new testament" refers to the covenant the earliest Christians believed God has entered into with all believers through Christ.

 

 

It's not that simple, it never is.Early Christians decided that while Judaism was the true revelation of God and the foundation of Christianity, Christianity represented a new era of God's dealings with the world so the extensive body of Jewish law was no longer binding.

 

 

 

Indeed they do

 

 

 

My understanding does not solely come form such conversations..and why do you use the phrase 'other Christians' ? I have repeatedly stated and state again that I am not religious...I am not a Christian

 

I don't recognise anything you say about rigid dogma, bending things etc..does not match with those I know best at all. If anything the people I know best have changed and grown and gained a better undersdtanding as they have learned more as opposed to dogma and bending 'it'...I don't find them dogmatic at all

 

The bible is a collection of books that are used in different numbers by different denominations. E 'Christian Old Testament' is a Christian book as much as it is a Jewish book. Just as Jesus is a character in the bible and the Koran. Christianity does has its roots in Judaism. Jesus was meant to be from the line of David. Just because the religions move away from each other after Jesus, doesn't mean you should split up their common ancestory before that. Christians believe that the god Moses spoke to is the same as the one Jesus did. To try and claim God 'changed his mind' considering he is all powerful, all present, and all knowing, is ridiculous. Your last comment is the cop out for cherry picking. 'Women don't have to marry their rapists now, but we do have to follow the Ten Commandments and you can't be gay'!

 

John 14:15 says, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

 

Matthew 5:17 says, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill"

 

I can't remember any at say the Old Testament isn't Christian.

[Andyregs]

It was Paul who made the split and changes bigger, in order to convert more people.

[Formby Valiant]

For me religeon has always been about control of the masses by the few who were able to harness it for their own ends. Money, Power and Terror.

 

Go back through time, the Romans, the crusades and today, Jihad.

 

My wifes family are Irish Catholic and her parents would have been brought up in the hell and damnation category. They are devout and attend mass every day.

 

My view is that its the ritual that provides comfort, for my wife she always went to mass with mum and dad and it gives her that warm feeling.

 

I have asked others if they really believe that when they receive communion, that they are actually receiving the body and blood of Christ. The answer has been "its symbolic", this wasn't a personal view point, they didn't realise that under there own religion after attending mass for decades that the most fundamental part of the process was to receive the actual body and blood of Christ.

 

It used to bother me, but not anymore, as I've said in a previous post, they are in blissful ignorance. After a recent family bereavement, I have seen the comfort that they have taken from their religion and fake though it may be, it seems to help them.

 

Because we as men/women are flawed, some need a God and others see the opportunity and exploit it. Any Church is made up of men/women, each with their own flaws, motives and biases, I think we've seen enough evidence of this in the past.

 

My simplistic argument is if there is a God:

 

Why create Man?

If your God has the power to create the world, surely he already knows the ending, ie. we blow ourselves up, get hit by a meteor or the planet dies. So why bother in the first place and create such an amount of suffering and death. Was he bored and he did it for his own amusement (would you read a book if you knew the ending). If he really did create our world as it is, then he's a bit of a D*** and should have spent more time in the design process.

[EricHamesis]

You don't know of any scientific evidence for God

 

 

That's not what I wrote or meant.

[Andyregs]

Are you suggesting that the only evidence for anything is scientific evidence?

 

Why would I suggest the Bible when i don't believe in it and have said repesatedly onm here that I am not religious?

 

Missed this. Science is a method. Still haven't heard your evidence. What other type of evidence that is non scientific could be used? What non scientific evidence could be used to show dinosaurs existed?

Never meant you were religious. Though confused. You argue for the evidence of something you don't believe in.

[Warren]

Missed this. Science is a method. Still haven't heard your evidence. What other type of evidence that is non scientific could be used? What non scientific evidence could be used to show dinosaurs existed?

Never meant you were religious. Though confused. You argue for the evidence of something you don't believe in.

 

I do respect science. However, we are but small monkeys on a small planet in a vast universe. It is unlikely we know more than a fraction of reality. In every moment of life we see our environment through limited senses and have a brain that works on perceptional bases. I am not on board with Christianity or the other God worshiping religions based on books, ritual and dodgy recalls of historical events etc. However, I am satisfied that there is a lot to be explained that cannot be explained by science as it is currently practiced and its limited dimensions and tools.

[Paul6754]

I do respect science. However, we are but small monkeys on a small planet in a vast universe. It is unlikely we know more than a fraction of reality. In every moment of life we see our environment through limited senses and have a brain that works on perceptional bases. I am not on board with Christianity or the other God worshiping religions based on books, ritual and dodgy recalls of historical events etc. However, I am satisfied that there is a lot to be explained that cannot be explained by science as it is currently practiced and its limited dimensions and tools.

 

Of course there is still much to be explained by science, there probably always will be. One , if not the most exciting place to be in the scientific world right now is at the interface between chemistry and biology. The science to back up Darwin's origin of the species theory at the molecular level has only been developed/available over the last 20 years, the DNA sequence of many species is known and the sequence and structue of many proteins is know allowing scientists to trace the origin and divergence of species. It will take many more discoveries and advances before the evolutionary puzzle can be worked out to the point that the idea that God made the earth and all that lives on it can be shown to be incorrect.

[geosname]

I think religion is simply a shield from reality.

[Andyregs]

I do respect science. However, we are but small monkeys on a small planet in a vast universe. It is unlikely we know more than a fraction of reality. In every moment of life we see our environment through limited senses and have a brain that works on perceptional bases. I am not on board with Christianity or the other God worshiping religions based on books, ritual and dodgy recalls of historical events etc. However, I am satisfied that there is a lot to be explained that cannot be explained by science as it is currently practiced and its limited dimensions and tools.

 

Of course there is lots still to learn, but the answer isn't to make things up to make up for that. Also, we know enough to dispute large amount of religious teaching already.

[Warren]

Of course there is lots still to learn, but the answer isn't to make things up to make up for that. Also, we know enough to dispute large amount of religious teaching already.

 

Indeed, I am at a loss with Christianity, and its main book the bible contains gross inaccuracy and inconsistency.

[SuperValiant1876]

Indeed, I am at a loss with Christianity, and its main book the bible contains gross inaccuracy and inconsistency.

 

I am at a loss with any religion that believes divine intervention made anything happen or indeed any religion where leaders have ruled with an iron fist.

[Andyregs]

I am at a loss with any religion that believes divine intervention made anything happen or indeed any religion where leaders have ruled with an iron fist.

 

Like (just grabbing some random example here), eye gauging for example?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

So evidence is different than proof?

 

Can be

 

And that is the biggest cop out going JA. So why is it taught as fact at primary schools? Why is every child in primary education indoctrinated in this day and age?

 

It should not be taught as fact in school

 

I believe RE should teach children about the major religions but only so they can understand them..their faith if any should come from family, cvommunity etc..not from school

 

You say you know a minister so this gives you an insight. I know a doctor but I don't know the ins and out's of medicine.

 

I don't claim to know the ins and outs..only some insight into what Christians believe esp. CofE. As i said when I mentioned my sis in law, "it doesn't make me an expert" . I dare say though that if you had dozens of conversations with the doctor that you know about medicine you'd gain a better insight into medicine than if you did not ?I don't get why you felt the need to post the above

 

The FACT is that there is NO proof whatsoever for a God

 

I agree, there is no proof

 

and only proof that we have evolved over the years into what we are now.

 

Well..there ius plenty of proof of evolution, I agree.

 

Creationists and some Christians believe we were created as we are now and that is in spite of scientific proof that we did not. HOw is that so hard to take in?

 

I am not a Christian nor a Creationist.and totally accept human evolution and I don't get how so many bright and educated Christians/Creationists don 't accept it. Can only be ignorance or they just don't want to

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The universe is evidence that the universe exists. Logically it can't be anything else. Not knowing where it came from isn't evidence for a god. It's as much evidence for god as it is for fairies at the bottom of my garden.

 

I know