Fan forum 25th Jan

[robf]

2 minutes ago, rob1983 said:

7 minutes ago, robf said:

Yes. I think the campus will help put bums on seats.
The campus scheme appears to involve big improvements in the Vale training pitch and academy infrastructure. 
Better training pitches and an improved academy could directly improve the Vale squad.
An improved squad should result in better performances.
Better performances should result in bigger crowds.
 

Come of it, pal. You've been round long enough to know the campus won't happen. It's just a PR exercise. Fans go to watch exciting players. Spend the money on the first team squad and the academy, and the crowds will grow. Invest in a decent manager. We can't even finish the lorne st

That's an impossible question though isn't it - because you're relying on us both predicting the future. I think it will happen because it's what the owners have suggested doing from the very start. 

But as it's the future, I suggest we'll have to beg to differ and come back to this in a year or so and see how the plans are then. 

[maccapvfc]

1 minute ago, rob1983 said:

6 minutes ago, robf said:

Yes. I think the campus will help put bums on seats.
The campus scheme appears to involve big improvements in the Vale training pitch and academy infrastructure. 
Better training pitches and an improved academy could directly improve the Vale squad.
An improved squad should result in better performances.
Better performances should result in bigger crowds.
 

Come of it, pal. You've been round long enough to know the campus won't happen. It's just a PR exercise. Fans go to watch exciting players. Spend the money on the first team squad and the academy, and the crowds will grow. Invest in a decent manager. We can't even finish the lorne st

In order to obtain higher level players, we need investment opportunities and whilst you don't agree the screen is necessary, the club see that as an opportunity of revenue growth. 

The Campus is a long term vision, which you'd hope would help the club to grow. We haven't finished the concourse to the Lorne Street because we don't need to at present - we don't fill the ground and neither would we even if we splashed that £100k it would take to finish the concourse, on a 'proven league 1 goalscorer'.....which a £100K wouldn't get you. 

We are spending money on the academy, I think that's clear to see - given the youth that have been given a chance this season. 

At the beginning of the season, what was your expectations of where we'd finish in the league (in our 2nd season back in League 1)?

[robf]

8 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I personally don’t see how the campus will help and it certainly shouldn’t be a priority when we look to be heading for another relegation battle. 

For me. Improve the squad, play entertaining football and fans will come. They aren’t turning up because of a campus or because we have a scoreboard. Those imo are niceties that should be considered much later. 

But it is a priority because you have to be sustainable (or at least as sustainable as possible). You can't have one short-term approach which is to throw money at the squad. Eventually there will be none to spend.

I think the efforts to get the academy sorted, to improve the facilities helps the club become more sustainable. The academy because producing homegrown youngsters is surely the most sustainable way of adding players, the training ground because it's not economical to pay players for sitting in the medical bay.

That's aside from the community benefit, the fact that in the long-term rooting Vale deep in the local community may encourage more of that community to come and support it. 

Finally then there's infrastructure in that the club is getting some improved facilities, land etc which it doesn't have to pay for itself (i.e. the council will be chipping in I presume). That helps the management of all the various playing squads and indirectly sorts out the LS (as the gym will move allowing that to open).

I can totally see the points of - we need to invest now, we need to stay up - but I think this is a long-term strategy. I think the club has put a bit more in this season (i.e. didn't they change the budget to get Uche) but there's short-term and long-term plans. This I think is the central pillar of what the owners want to get to. A more sustainable, community club with top-notch facilities. It may or not work - I hope it does.

[TJHValiant]

5 hours ago, maccapvfc said:

How do you work that one out? Just because they've stated that the market is too expensive? I'd agree with them, when you consider that Will Goodwin left Cheltenham to go to Oxford for a reported £400K fee. We're trying to become sustainable and we've only just started this model of investing in our youth, which then allows us to be sell and reinvest - we've got to allow it time to develop before we start to see that coming to fruition. 

Do we really want our owner having to pump in millions each year just to keep us afloat. There was a recent article about Lincoln are due to post losses of circa £3m for this season....is that the model you really want!

The market isn’t too expensive. We are in a competitive environment. It is dictated by other clubs, I.e our rivals. You either pay to compete, or you don’t. I don’t think Flitcroft or Crosby have these elite skills to defy the markets. That’s what their fans on here think we can achieve. 
 

Will Goodwin is exactly, at 21, the sort of player who will go on to be a huge asset from what I have seen. He is the sort of player we should be investing in and will go on to be sold for much more. That’s my idea of developing youth, not going through a cycle of loans from the Prem which are never our players. I did actually think the lads who played at the Blackpool game were brilliant and there is some real hope there, but they won’t keep us in the league. 
 

An owner has to pump in millions to keep a club afloat. That’s a minimum expectation of a league football club. May as well run it ourselves if being skint and not spending money is acceptable. The aim is, you put money in, in the hope that decent player sales can generate a profit or the club gets into the top two divisions where profit can be made if investment is frugal. 

Then there is the scoreboard. I am staggered to find it was a loan against the club. I thought it had been donated to the club! So will this Vale Park campus be loaned against the club too? Or is there money for that?  
 

There was another person who liked to loan money against the club rather than putting his own in…

[The French Connection]

40 minutes ago, rob1983 said:

56 minutes ago, valefan16 said:

I don't know, I would think it will require support from the council etc but no reason why it can't if so.

Just a PR exercise, I'm afraid. A smoke screen.

Think you've made your point now, ta. 

[Boslem's Brazil]

1 hour ago, valefan16 said:

Surely the scoreboard as it get full use with advertising ends up then paying for itself and longer term makes money which is then another investment?

These things take time, no one can state we haven't invested in ways we haven't certainly since the 90's in the club... granted its not all gone on the squad but rightly the infrastructure which may take years but once complete would surely see us far more sustainable and able to invest more in the squad (Youth Team/Campus/Facilities/Scoreboard/advertising).

The issue is football fans want the here and now, sure if we are 2-0 down tomorrow I will be grumbling about us not being competitive etc but with a level head we've had a lot to do and improve to avoid being purely reliant on a sugar daddy.

Agree 100%. Can you imagine if we hadn’t invested to build the Lorne Street stand all those years ago and just invested in players instead? We’d probably be in non-league now after ITV digital collapse.

Even half finished, the Lorne Street provided excellent corporate facilities, as well as office spaces, first team facilities etc. It probably proved the difference between just about keeping our heads above water as a league team, rather going into the non-league abyss.

Those who fail to realise the importance of investing in infrastructure and long term planning, sadly do not understand modern football. 

[TJHValiant]

1 hour ago, Smallthorne clampet said:

I will always turn up and support the club , as do 4000 or so others , but the floating 3000 or so will not accept mediocrity . You have to keep them on board NOW , or they will drift away .  

That’s the point. I would watch us in non league. Few others would. 

[maccapvfc]

27 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

The market isn’t too expensive. We are in a competitive environment. It is dictated by other clubs, I.e our rivals. You either pay to compete, or you don’t. I don’t think Flitcroft or Crosby have these elite skills to defy the markets. That’s what their fans on here think we can achieve. 
 

Will Goodwin is exactly, at 21, the sort of player who will go on to be a huge asset from what I have seen. He is the sort of player we should be investing in and will go on to be sold for much more. That’s my idea of developing youth, not going through a cycle of loans from the Prem which are never our players. I did actually think the lads who played at the Blackpool game were brilliant and there is some real hope there, but they won’t keep us in the league. 
 

An owner has to pump in millions to keep a club afloat. That’s a minimum expectation of a league football club. May as well run it ourselves if being skint and not spending money is acceptable. The aim is, you put money in, in the hope that decent player sales can generate a profit or the club gets into the top two divisions where profit can be made if investment is frugal. 

Then there is the scoreboard. I am staggered to find it was a loan against the club. I thought it had been donated to the club! So will this Vale Park campus be loaned against the club too? Or is there money for that?  
 

There was another person who liked to loan money against the club rather than putting his own in…

As I previously mentioned, Lincoln are due to post in excess of £3m losses for the year - look where they currently are in the league....4 points above us, having played 3 games more. Is that really the club you want. 

The owners and staff want the club to remain in league one, be competitive but at the same time, look at opportunities that we can increase the income to the club. A perfect and simple example is the kiosks - they're looking to improve that area of the business. I can't remember how many times I've given up queuing because it was taking far too long - I won't be the only one and therefore, that is a loss of revenue for the club.

Like it or not, the club needs to be able to generate it's own income sustainably rather than relying on a wealthy benefactor to inject endless amounts of millions in the club. If that's what you want, go and watch Man City or any other of the 'Elite' clubs. 

 

[valiant_593]

4 minutes ago, Boslem's Brazil said:

Agree 100%. Can you imagine if we hadn’t invested to build the Lorne Street stand all those years ago and just invested in players instead? We’d probably be in non-league now after ITV digital collapse.

Even half finished, the Lorne Street provided excellent corporate facilities, as well as office spaces, first team facilities etc. It probably proved the difference between just about keeping our heads above water as a league team, rather going into the non-league abyss.

Those who fail to realise the importance of investing in infrastructure and long term planning, sadly do not understand modern football. 

Right now where we are in league 1 and I said this last year, we need to be investing in the team to ensure we are comfortable at this level and won’t be hanging on every season. We just survived through not good work of our own and this season to me looks very similar. Right now I think investing the squad is much more important than a campus or the scoreboard (and finishing lorne street for that matter) 

Long term planning? You can’t just plan long term. There has to be mid and short term plans. We can’t just say we’re going to tread water and flitter with relegation every season until 2027 where one of our youth players may or may not be good enough. You can’t put everything into that and stop investing in the first team. Look at Crewe.  

Long term planning and infrastructure Is important. Just as is investing in the first team and focussing on the short and mid term. There’s no point us prepping for 5 years time with lovely toilet's if we’re back in league 2. Has to be a balancing act 

[rob1983]

Think you've made your point now, ta. 

Thanks.

[Bimbleabout]

It made me a bit sad hearing some of the answers to the questions last night. I think as fans not being happy about things and wanting to know answers or being generally unhappy about some people within the structure of vale park. But theres a fine line between questioning things and going over the top and being abusive. I think everyone would agree that we all want the best for vale and that we want to see vale play as high as we possibly can. But to hear carol being upset about abuse to her flitcroft and some of the playing squad really hit home. I think we all need to take a step back and look how far the club has come from when they took over. We are in a miles better position than we were and that is down to the consistent effort of everyone involved. Have they done everything perfectly no. Should that lead to abuse no. Can we question things that arent done well? Absolutely.
i think we all need to become aware now at this moment in time we cannot compete financially to sign decent strikers at this level. But are we putting building blocks so we potentially can in the future. I believe so. 
for us to be able to compete we need to be selling players for substantial amounts so that can be reinvested. This cannot be done overnight you might get lucky with the odd player but to do this consistently takes a complete overhaul in our whole academy infrastructure. I believe the club are making strides in the right direction but this could be a 3-5 years before we reep the benefits. If players like sharrock can break into the team at a regular basis before making it to 20 year old its more than likely a bigger team will throw some serious cash to get him. That is how we will then be able to go and get the better calibre of players. 
 
we may just all need to accept mediocrity in terms of football until we reach that point. Some decent performances some not so. We all need to get behind what they are trying to do now myself included. Its not going to happen overnight like i said. 

Finally someones written it up here. Great post Mukka and it's where Alot of the fan base is at. Kudus to you mate
UTV KTF

[Packmoor_vale]

Some serious ***** knocking about

Transparency  

I would tell u <ovf censored> all 

[TJHValiant]

34 minutes ago, maccapvfc said:

As I previously mentioned, Lincoln are due to post in excess of £3m losses for the year - look where they currently are in the league....4 points above us, having played 3 games more. Is that really the club you want. 

The owners and staff want the club to remain in league one, be competitive but at the same time, look at opportunities that we can increase the income to the club. A perfect and simple example is the kiosks - they're looking to improve that area of the business. I can't remember how many times I've given up queuing because it was taking far too long - I won't be the only one and therefore, that is a loss of revenue for the club.

Like it or not, the club needs to be able to generate it's own income sustainably rather than relying on a wealthy benefactor to inject endless amounts of millions in the club. If that's what you want, go and watch Man City or any other of the 'Elite' clubs. 

 

I agree. Except loaning players off Prem clubs isn’t going to develop our own income. The clubs that make money are successful clubs. Not necessarily big ones. I guarantee Stevenage won’t publish a loss because they have a decent, Prem standard academy and an owner who has never loaned against the club. When they wanted a new stand, he got fans to fund it via a bond scheme..

[Fosse69]

21 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

I agree. Except loaning players off Prem clubs isn’t going to develop our own income. The clubs that make money are successful clubs. Not necessarily big ones. I guarantee Stevenage won’t publish a loss because they have a decent, Prem standard academy and an owner who has never loaned against the club. When they wanted a new stand, he got fans to fund it via a bond scheme..

Where is this Premier Standard Academy? 

[Guest]

I've read through there answers to questions they seem reasonable to me .

How are we supposed to move forwards on the gates we get .

We will do very well still be in League 1 in five years if gates continue to not grow .

That's the hub of it you no need ask any questions really we need to win HOME football matches and attract folk who wouldn't normally give Vale the time of day never mind there money 

UTV