World Cup 2022.

[philpvfc]

1 hour ago, eh up nah said:

I don't think there is anything whatsoever to suggest that Eddie Howe is a better option for England than Gareth Southgate.

What happened at Bournemouth was an incredible story but I don't think Burnley fans would say much good about him.  Castle are doing well but so they bloody should be now they're backed by the gangsters of the middle east.

Southgate has won more knockout games than the previous 9 managers combined I'm sure I've read.

To even see the England side have a serious chance of winning something feels bloody refreshing.

I heard a similar argument from a guy in the pub watching last night, saying its because he's had a wealth of talent at his disposal.

Look at the squad Sven took to Germany in 2006.

Southgate has done a good job undeniably, England have progressed while under his reign but I don’t think tactically he is good and if we are to ever win anything we need a far better tactician else we will keep losing to the top teams. It’s the small margins and unfortunately each time we come up short. There’s no guarantee Howe will do better but he is a far better tactician, did wonders at Bournemouth and is doing it again with Newcastle, despite being bank rolled I don’t think anyone would have placed them as a top 4 team this early.

[philpvfc]

14 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

And Denmark who were in the top ten.

Just checked, Germany were 12th and Denmark were 10th when we played them. Oh well, top 9 team then.

[Coyney Valiant]

5 hours ago, Biddulph_PV said:

I agree and disagree at the same time. We were the better side. This was an ok but not a fantastic French side. Mbappe and Tchouaneni and maybe Lloris apart, are there any other world class players?? 

We have all this supposed ‘world class talent’….. Foden (who was rubbish last night and massively overrated IMHO), Bellingham, Rice, Saka, Kane, Grealish, Rashford etc - our so-called embarrassment of riches, but we never opened them up. The second penalty was just a daft mistake from them, not really the result of good play from us. They scored twice from open play.

But we got the 2nd penalty, though yet again the fine margins always - and I mean always - go against us. Why??

I can’t help but think that we wasted most of the first half being way too cautious, and Southgate ought to be criticised for it. When you’re talking about fine margins literally every second counts. I looked at the clock on dead on 30 mins and then again at 35 mins and literally nothing had happened in that period - we’d allowed France just eat up that time. You can’t spend 20-25 minutes sizing the oppo’s up, because before you know it a big chunk of the game gone and you’re a goal down, chasing and becoming more desperate. 

For Maguire to say we now belong at this level is daft; yes last night was not an Iceland, but it’s out in the QF’s again for the 7th time. So we’ve never really not been at ‘elite level’ but not obviously progressed to Champions level.  

This is far and away the best chance we’ll have for a generation. A W/C mid-season, so none of the usual ‘burned out after a long EPL season’ excuses (though never been sure why that only seems to apply to English players) and some of the usual heavyweights way off their best.  

A W/C win feels further away than ever this morning. We’re basically a team that will (and should) be there or thereabouts but will just continue to build its collection of hard luck stories. We have no divine right to win anything, but given the level of investment in our game I think to not win a tournament - or even get to a final - overseas in nearly 100 years is nothing short of shocking. 

Against a French side missing 6 regulars including benzema and kante can you imagine if kane was missing we’d still be moaning till next summer 

[Biddulph_PV]

7 minutes ago, Coyney Valiant said:

Against a French side missing 6 regulars including benzema and kante can you imagine if kane was missing we’d still be moaning till next summer 

Exactly, an ok French team that knows how to get the job done. Massive, massive opportunity squandered by an overly cautious, reactionary manager in my opinion. Still, with the youngsters in the team, it all bodes well for the future (again).

[Powerline]

I’d like to see Southgate go personally. Yes he’s won knockout games but let’s face it they were all against teams that on paper we should be beating. As soon as we played any good teams we lost. This tweet sums it up: 

[Biddulph_PV]

24 minutes ago, Powerline said:

I’d like to see Southgate go personally. Yes he’s won knockout games but let’s face it they were all against teams that on paper we should be beating. As soon as we played any good teams we lost. This tweet sums it up: 

Sums up what I’ve said. It’s a fallacy that English football is in a ‘hugely better place because of Southgate’ (Neville said words to that effect). The fact is, it isn’t. We’ll perpetually be in the knock-out mixer, but not serious contenders. Pretty rubbish if you ask me given the strength of the Premier League.

[Powerline]

12 minutes ago, Biddulph_PV said:

Sums up what I’ve said. It’s a fallacy that English football is in a ‘hugely better place because of Southgate’ (Neville said words to that effect). The fact is, it isn’t. We’ll perpetually be in the knock-out mixer, but not serious contenders. Pretty rubbish if you ask me given the strength of the Premier League.

I think he’s a great manager in terms of getting the squad in the right mentality for tournament football, but he’s tactically inept and this gets shown up whenever we play a good team. 

[Biddulph_PV]

The good news is ‘we’ll be mentally and physically stronger for the next challenge” as a result of this. Just like we were as a result of 2020. And 2018. Oh….

[Andy Proctor]

We haven't got a good enough defence to win a tournament. We couldn't win anything with Terry Ferdinand Campbell Ashley Cole ect in defence so got no chance with macguire trippier Shaw walker and stones 

[Biddulph_PV]

1 hour ago, Andy Proctor said:

We haven't got a good enough defence to win a tournament. We couldn't win anything with Terry Ferdinand Campbell Ashley Cole ect in defence so got no chance with macguire trippier Shaw walker and stones 

We’re basically the Everton of international football. We still think of ourselves as a big deal and will always be in the top 20 but will generally come undone against the big six (France, Spain, Brazil, Germany, Portugal and Italy).

[JoeB2]

Did we not beat Germany last year?

In the last 4 years we've reached a semi-final, lost a final on penalties, and narrowly lost a QF to the reigning world champions. We're undoubtedly a top 5 team at present with a core of excellent young players.

It would be great to win something but knockout football has such fine margins which are often beyond the control of a manager. There's a reason only the truly elite teams (Spain 2008-12) go back to back at major tournaments. Italy won in 2021 and couldn't qualify for 2022. Germany won in 2014 and have been largely rubbish since. Spain haven't done a great deal since 2012. Brazil continue to bottle since 2002.

I'm not entirely sure what Southgate could have done differently last night. If Kane catches his penalty right, it's extra time with momentum after a good performance, and suddenly we're a Morocco semi-final away from either an ageing Croatia or an unconvincing Argentina in a world cup final. This is how tight things are in knockout football, and as much as we like to think it's all controllable , a lot of it is just sheer good/bad luck. Last night we were on the end of some bad luck. 9/10 Kane hammers that into the corner, Southgate you're the one, it's coming home, chuck your pints.

No need for sackings and root and branch reform on the basis of a missed penalty. Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Rashford, James, Trent, Mount, and Rice will be hitting their primes over the next two tournaments. This is the best performing England team in decades and I don't fancy gambling on trying to improve on it with no obvious replacement, as I remember how miserable it was 2000-2016.

[CambridgeDon]

Hate to spoil the wake but, according to Le Soir, the Vice President of the EU Parliament, Eva Kaili, has been arrested in Brussels along with three others in connection with suspicions of corruption, which it claims to be on the part of Qatar.  Property searched and the suspects held for questioning. Another Le Soir headline reads, Qatar suspected of corruption at the heart of Europe...

https://www.lesoir.be/482200/article/2022-12-09/soupcons-de-corruption-par-le-qatar-la-vice-presidente-du-parlement-europeen-eva

Qatar is, of course, denying the claims.

[Loggerheads Sage]

15 hours ago, Conrad said:

England played really well not helped by a crap ref and 2 VAR decisions going against us, the only criticism from me is, and it’s not with hindsight, Kane shouldn’t have taken the second penalty, I said before he took it I don’t think the same player should take two pens.

Agreed,  I said the same, especially against his club teammate. I was nervous first time, never mind second 

Couldn't believe that Saka was taken off, he was causing them constant problems 

[philpvfc]

11 hours ago, Biddulph_PV said:

We’re basically the Everton of international football. We still think of ourselves as a big deal and will always be in the top 20 but will generally come undone against the big six (France, Spain, Brazil, Germany, Portugal and Italy).

Disagree, I think he have a top 5 squad which can and should compete with any team in the world as we showed on Saturday, more than matching the best team in the world but we fall short against the best teams in the every time in the major tournaments, partly down to a bit of bad luck but mostly because we haven’t got a manager who gets his tactics right. We were unlucky against France and played well but I still disagree with playing Henderson and Rice, Kane was too isolated and his subs!, Saka was poor in the first half but 2nd half he’d won a penalty, their left back was on a booking and couldn’t cope with him, so Southgate takes him off for a poor Sterling and their left back wasn’t troubled again, Foden had a quiet game by his standards, could he have brought Grealish on?. It’s those small margins that can be the difference of winning against the top teams but every time, tactically Southgate gets it wrong. 
If you look at the teams you mention.

• Spain - great team, hopeless manager, has to be sacked if not gone already. To drop Morata, their only striker after winning 7-0. Too much keep possession football without any direction
• France - Great team, best in the world at the moment with possibly the best player in the world but aren’t as good as they were 4 years ago
• Brazil- very overrated who similar to us, always lose when they play against a good European team and they have the worlds most overrated player
• Germany- Ranked number 12 in the world and sinking rapidly. They will come back but for the lat 4-5 years they have not been a good team
• Portugal- very average with an awful defence supported by a 39 year old playing in the center of it. Lived on the back end of the 2nd best player in the world for 15 years, they are like Wales without Bale now Ronaldo is finished
• Italy- Same as Germany, did well in the Euros but look at the previous World Cup and not qualifying this time, their domestic league as gone <ovf censored> but they will return again.

 

England IMO are better than all the above bar France and should be challenging.

 

[WV]

Southgate has won 6 KO games as England manager in 3 tournaments. That’s as many as the team managed total in the previous 48 years. 
 

this World Cup exit is a little different. We won the group, eased through the Senegal game and deserved to win against France despite the ref. The sense of entitlement in some fans is unreal. Same ones have it for both England and vale. Wonder if too much of their happiness relies on a win in the football.