Pay rise for Public Sector Workers ?

[Mario]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53478404?fbclid=IwAR36OtdUO7XAZn3pZxX3NwSDDkXyp54CuGAFfp2AP3aTGzf7C-TCtqFvsvs

What have Dentists done to deserve a pay rise ? And Teachers have done everything they can to obstruct going back to work.

[Fosse69]

Distraction  day to cover up the NHS and farmers bad news.

[Mario]

The only staff I would recognise for their contribution to fighting Covid are the very front line Covid workers and Paramedics, those that worked in the Covid wards who spent hours with patients under extremely difficult conditions.

I would also consider a significant pay rise for the Police who have been kicked from pillar to post this last 4 months.

This blanket pay rise is another example of this Government using a scatter gun approach and I guess they hope it will raise their popularity levels. 

[Valiant62]

The main staff I would recognise is those working in the community who had to deal with all of this without machines that go bleep, many of whom work in what is now privatised social and residential care. Raise the minimum wage.

[JRC]

Not a forum I normally get involved in but having just watched a nurse on Sky News talking about low pay in nursing I looked up The Royal College of Nurses info on nurses average pay which is 35k a year. Reed Accounting has the average for an accountant as 32,982. Starting salaries for accountants are actually lower than nurses. According to the Office for National Statistics the hourly salary is 13% higher in the public sector but age adjusted is 1% lower. This doesn't factor in better pension rights. I certainly do not decry the right of either profession to earn their salaries and I work in neither but the efforts of some public sector unions to use staff at the bottom of a pay spine with guaranteed annual incremetal increases to demonstrate alleged low pay does drive me to distraction. I think it is right that nurses on average earn more than median and mean wages but there needs to be some honesty that in most cases they already do. 

[Jacko51]

As I understand it, the pay rises will have to be funded from existing budgets. 

[Joe B]

2 hours ago, Mario said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53478404?fbclid=IwAR36OtdUO7XAZn3pZxX3NwSDDkXyp54CuGAFfp2AP3aTGzf7C-TCtqFvsvs

What have Dentists done to deserve a pay rise ? And Teachers have done everything they can to obstruct going back to work.

Hi there, Mario.

As a Recently Qualified Teacher, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about 'obstructing' going back to work. 

If you have any evidence regarding this claim, could you share it please? What exactly is 'everything'? 

I've been desperate to go back into work, have spent these first two days of the 6 week holidays in school ensuring the classrooms and curriculum will be safe and fit for purpose for 700+ students come September. I may have a week in Cornwall if time permits, but I fully intend on working throughout the holidays (which suits me as I like it).

I'm not fussed about the payrise (its unfunded, meaning it'll come out of school budget, meaning schools won't do it/have to make redundancies), but if we could stick to facts please that would lead to a more constructive conversation.

Cheers mate,

Joe

[Joe B]

5 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

As I understand it, the pay rises will have to be funded from existing budgets. 

Correct, Jean. It amounts to budget cuts, essentially.

I'm never going to complain at the prospect of a pay rise, but I'd much rather extra funding comes in for support staff, resources, and enrichment opportunities for our disadvantaged students as opposed to an extra 3% for me, which comes out of the school's budget and could be used for more important things.

[Joe B]

I'll jump the gun and say if anyone would fancy a gander of my timetable since lockdown, or would like to ask me any questions about how much time I've had off (answer; none) I'm happy to provide. Live Zoom Lessons + creation of recorded lessons + KS3 curriculum review + creation of adaptable resources for September + CPD = working the same, if not more, hours as usual.

I'm not moaning as my school is great and I love my job; I'm lucky to do what I do, so I'm not looking for pity/sympathy.

Just struggle with this evidence-lacking assertion that teachers have avoided work. I really don't know where the nationwide antipathy towards teachers stems from, but a lot of it is fundamentally incorrect. There are definite criticisms to make of some in the profession, but to make the sweeping claims of Mario at the top of this thread is disingenuous.

[Jacko51]

38 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I'll jump the gun and say if anyone would fancy a gander of my timetable since lockdown, or would like to ask me any questions about how much time I've had off (answer; none) I'm happy to provide. Live Zoom Lessons + creation of recorded lessons + KS3 curriculum review + creation of adaptable resources for September + CPD = working the same, if not more, hours as usual.

I'm not moaning as my school is great and I love my job; I'm lucky to do what I do, so I'm not looking for pity/sympathy.

Just struggle with this evidence-lacking assertion that teachers have avoided work. I really don't know where the nationwide antipathy towards teachers stems from, but a lot of it is fundamentally incorrect. There are definite criticisms to make of some in the profession, but to make the sweeping claims of Mario at the top of this thread is disingenuous.

Teachers have always been the butt of criticism because everyone has been in a classroom so they all know how easy the job is. I’ve been on an Intercity 125 but I’m buggered if I’d know how to drive one. 

[Coyney Valiant]

3 hours ago, Mario said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53478404?fbclid=IwAR36OtdUO7XAZn3pZxX3NwSDDkXyp54CuGAFfp2AP3aTGzf7C-TCtqFvsvs

What have Dentists done to deserve a pay rise ? And Teachers have done everything they can to obstruct going back to work.

The school I work at has been open to vulnerable kids and kids of frontline workers right through the lockdown and will carry on opening through the 6 weeks holidays including bank holidays the teachers and all the other staff have been in all from day one and most will be in during the 6 weeks giving up there holidays they have been amazing  so stop reading the sun newspaper and get your facts right 

[Mario]

1 hour ago, Joe B said:

Correct, Jean. It amounts to budget cuts, essentially.

I'm never going to complain at the prospect of a pay rise, but I'd much rather extra funding comes in for support staff, resources, and enrichment opportunities for our disadvantaged students as opposed to an extra 3% for me, which comes out of the school's budget and could be used for more important things.

Hi Joe,

So what have teachers done to "Fight Covid" ?

Teaching is a very important occupation very important, and they have to do a lot of extra curricular work and are subjected to examination via OFSTED which is another bone of contention with me, but so are a lot of other professions, so why have they had a pay rise for fighting Covid and yet the teaching assistant who does equally important work will probably get nowt or sacked to pay for the teachers pay rise, which you quite rightly say will come out of the school budget and for goodness sake Dentists, have you tried getting a treatment, nigh on impossible, what have they done?

My consultant at Stoke and his staff getting a pay rise ? The last appointment I had was for the 10th Feb it was sent and dated 12th Feb and it was delivered on the 17th they also had the temerity to say I'd missed an appointment and it cost the NHS £160 and they are getting a pay rise ? Have they being fighting Covid? I doubt it. Will they send me a new appointment when this Virus is under control, I doubt it.

This government are playing for the populist vote a scatter gun approach to make themselves look "Softer" to the voting population.

I know what I'm saying is not popular with the OVF bubble but a lot of people are saying the same as me in the wider world.

Cheers mate,

Mario.

[Conrad]

If the schools hadn’t remained open for the children of frontline NHS workers, then those NHS workers would have had to stay at home to look after the children.

[Joe B]

15 minutes ago, Mario said:

Hi Joe,

So what have teachers done to "Fight Covid" ?

Teaching is a very important occupation very important, and they have to do a lot of extra curricular work and are subjected to examination via OFSTED which is another bone of contention with me, but so are a lot of other professions, so why have they had a pay rise for fighting Covid and yet the teaching assistant who does equally important work will probably get nowt or sacked to pay for the teachers pay rise, which you quite rightly say will come out of the school budget and for goodness sake Dentists, have you tried getting a treatment, nigh on impossible, what have they done?

My consultant at Stoke and his staff getting a pay rise ? The last appointment I had was for the 10th Feb it was sent and dated 12th Feb and it was delivered on the 17th they also had the temerity to say I'd missed an appointment and it cost the NHS £160 and they are getting a pay rise ? Have they being fighting Covid? I doubt it. Will they send me a new appointment when this Virus is under control, I doubt it.

This government are playing for the populist vote a scatter gun approach to make themselves look "Softer" to the voting population.

I know what I'm saying is not popular with the OVF bubble but a lot of people are saying the same as me in the wider world.

Cheers mate,

Mario.

You've completely changed your point there, Mario. 

Initial point - Teachers have fought going back to work!

Me: That's not true

Second point - Teachers don't deserve a payrise in comparison to TAs and Nurses (I agree!)

Read my posts and you'll see I have advocated for the funding not to go towards my pay but to support staff like TAs, as you mention. I would much rather see the 3% go to nurses or essential education resources or services. Read my posts and you'll see that's exactly what I said.

I would love nurses to get more pay, but the government is sticking to the view that they got a pay rise not too long ago.

Again, you've made a great argument that I fully agree with, but my contention was with your completely fabricated claim that teachers had 'obstructed returning to work', which is without evidential grounding and, bar maybe one or two individual cases out of 10s of thousands, completely false.

Making one argument, getting a response, and then making a completely separate one that has no relevance to the initial point of contention (without at all mentioning the initial point) is silly.

If the wider world agrees with your first point (teachers have obstructed a return to work), then fine, but they've been misinformed. If they agree with your second point (money better spent elsewhere), that would make sense, as most teachers do too.

[Jacko51]

The issue about re-opening schools was not because of the teachers, it was because of the government's rules about social distancing.  If you have to have 2 metres distance between pupils you would need enormous classrooms to accomodate classes of 30.  If you ignore social distancing parents will not co-operate and send their kids. 

And with regard to your idea that schools could put on Zoom lessons like private schools - well a number of them have but you have to recognise that private schools have a somewhat different clientele than state schools.  A considerable number of state school pupils will not have the required technology in their homes.  My friend and ex-colleague has been working from home throughout lockdown because she is in the at risk category.  She has set lessons for all her classes online, monitored the pupil responses and marked all their work.  My neighbour, who works in a school 30 miles away, has been travelling in on  a rota basis to deal with the pupils who have to be in school and has spent the rest of her time sitting in her conservatory at her laptop working whilst home schooling her kids.  The headteacher at my former school has spent lockdown working and tearing his hair out at regular intervals trying to deal with the numerous contradictory directives he has had from the government.

If you've seen the way in which timetabling is being done for the restart in September you would not recogise it because the need to control movement around the buildings has made normal timetabling impossible.  You can go to the pub but you can't have two way corridors in old buildings.

There will be some teachers who have not been as conscientious but please don't judge the whole profession by them.