Race Hate / Terrorist Acid Attack

[Bea Smith]

I am taking it up with the thread poster by posting my opinions.

 

What exactly is a 'white victims' debate? are we not allowed to debate issues when the victims are white? Are they any less a victim because they are white? Skin colour has nothing to do with it and I've not said otherwise at all in this thread, unlike you.

 

I defended the BNP on this one issue because I found the show to be edited in such a way to say that the BNP are the real bad guys. This was a documentary about child rape gangs and authorities who knew about it and failed to stop it. The BNP actually stood up and said it was happening when many people didn't dare. They were right on this one. That doesn't make them right on everything, it doesn't mean I'm a BNP fan or whatever else is running through your head right now.

 

It's not racist to acknowledge that minorities do bad things. It doesn't mitigate it because they are not white. I don't understand the need of some to broadcast what a wonderful person they are by saying "but white people rape kids too".

 

If you are so against this thread being off topic then stop posting or revert back to the original topic. You've come after me in this thread, yet again, like you have in the other active thread, and like you have many times in the past. Your not adding to the debate your simply trying to imply that I'm racist without a single shred of evidence. You do it in every thread Bea and everyone can see what you are doing. I'll reply all day long, I find it hilarious, just please don't pretend that this is something it isn't.

 

 

I have not said you were racist, I do wish to understand why you support racists.

If you see that as implying, that is your own problem (and guilt complex ?)

 

I had no reason to come on to the thread originally, so it is to my credit not yours that,as you say 'I cam on it after you did' - because it was being hijacked.

 

There have been endless other threads about the abuse of girls in places like Rochdale and where I live, and as I said I probably know far more about it than you do, having seen the effect it has on communities.

 

 

 

So people (not necessarily you) should not make it worse by introducing it again every time there is a mention of race, otherwise scars will never heal and eduction and reform of the previous mess will never be effective.

 

You say you are not allowed to debate when the vioctims are white - but you are doing just that, the true fact is you refuse to get involved when it is the other way round. And 'victims', your favourite word (not) seems to be fine to use when you choose.

 

I don't care if you reply all day long, but don't speak for others with your 'everyone can see what you are doing' as there are just as many can see you clearly through your posts and you certainly seem to have an issue with that.

[geosname]

It surprises me that anyone living in a police state where there is no democracy has the nerve to come on here and criticise the best police force in the world. No police force is perfect, but I dont't think many people would swap ours fro the Thai police.

Picking out one case and posting it is ridiculous.

 

Thats a very strange argument to make

The report appeared on the day I posted beside another regarding failure re stalking victims

 

IPCC commissioner Jan Williams said: "Bijan Ebrahimi self-identified as a victim of race hate crime, but was never recognised as a repeat victim of abuse who needed help.

 

Reports Mr Ebrahimi made to police

2007 - 9 reports made, the number recorded as a crime is unknown

2008 - 21 reports, 7 recorded as a crime

2009 - 18 reports, 8 recorded as a crime

2010 - 11 reports, 3 recorded as a crime

2011 - 5 reports, 4 recorded as a crime

2012 - 7 reports, 3 recorded as a crime

2013 - 2 reports, 0 recorded as a crime

 

I see no mention of Thai police in the article

The argument that it must be OK in the UK because its worse somewhere else is a strange one

 

I didnt criticise the police... The IPPC did

[geosname]

.

The days of James Anderton and S Yorks police at Hillsbrough are long gone -

 

Do you really think that is true?

 

Would you expect an officer to support your claim if it was against a brother/sister officer?... or a superior officer?

[Bea Smith]

Do you really think that is true?

 

Would you expect an officer to support your claim if it was against a brother/sister officer?... or a superior officer?

 

The problem is I can only give you anecdotal evidence, and ye no way of knowing if it is true or not.

However, I can tell you that I know of 2 instances locally where that exact ting happened, the brother/sister officer thing is much less prevalent than in previous times.

 

As for James Anderton, he was a religious freak in he Rev IaPaisley style who was massively bigoted against homosexuals in particular and noted for vile comments. The police force now recruits and advertises for gay officer in gpublications so that is evidence that things have changed there.

 

 

Certainly the superior officer thing is not right - there are many cases where this happens, you can google those to see for sure.

Freemasonry in the police force is dying too as a standard protection.

 

My point about you criticising the British police whilst living in Thailand is that I don't think anyone except the Thai authorities perhaps would dispute the the British police are fairer and less corrupt than those in the country you choose to live in, and you would not dare to make such a statement about them. The facts you list in that tragic caswe would have been supressed there too.

[geosname]

Whatever happens in Thailand is immaterial to the thread or to the argument you make re uk police.

I dont doubt things are changing, it the nature of life.

How many times do we hear "lessons have been learned" but are repeated over and over again.. the article I quoted was re sensible policing... do you thing the action of the police in those circumstances was sensible? reasonable even?

Offering up "its better than X Y or Z"... does that make it acceptable?... excuse it in some way?... should the police take your advise and simply say to a victim "be thankful you dont live in X Y or Z?"... bearing in mind the victims may come from X Y or Z.... does it mean people in Thailand should be happy they dont live in North Korea?

Its not acceptable even in the best police force

[geosname]

 

My point about you criticising the British police whilst living in Thailand is that I don't think anyone except the Thai authorities perhaps would dispute the the British police are fairer and less corrupt than those in the country you choose to live in, and you would not dare to make such a statement about them. The facts you list in that tragic caswe would have been supressed there too.

 

It didnt happen in Thailand it happened in the UK... it was "suppressed" in the UK until the victim was murdered and an IPPC inquiry was held... it was suppressed by the police by not reporting the crimes reported to them... the same attitude is taken in stalking cases, which was also reported by the BBC the same day.

The disturbing thing about such cases is that no one knows about them until its to late, when its investigated after a tragedy.... I wonder how many never see the light of day, swept under the carpet, covered up, not investigated because a tragedy didnt occur/result

I also wonder why it took so long for police on the ground to come forward en-mass to admit their statements were altered or they lied after the liverpool disaster at sheffield.

I dont know the answers but if you dont ask the question you may never know... but I wouldnt dream of saying... count yourselves lucky you dont live in thailand.

 

A man died because of police failures in the UK... if as you suggest the UK police are the best in the world then the questions should be a lot tougher and the acceptable answers cant be "well it would be a lot worse if it had happened somewhere else"

[Paul6754]

Not in the slightest, Christ man read the thread, there were a number of people promoting the BNP, my comment was regarding that.

 

At least if you are going to try to be clever read the thread and get the gist of its content.

 

There are not a "number of people promoting the BNP on this thread or in that programme" and the BNP is certainly not the gist of this thread. The BNP are only a minor part of the programme.

 

Watch the programme again and forget this unhealthy fixation with the BNP and EDL, it's clouding your judgement.

[FATBOYSTEVE]

There are not a "number of people promoting the BNP on this thread or in that programme" and the BNP is certainly not the gist of this thread. The BNP are only a minor part of the programme.

 

Watch the programme again and forget this unhealthy fixation with the BNP and EDL, it's clouding your judgement.

 

If you edited the BNPandEDL references from that BBC PHSYOP PROG it would only have been on for less than an hour rather than from 8:30 till ten so the real theme of the prog was Not sexual abuse / grooming by Asains also if you watch the tommy Robinson viral docu you will see stuff the bbc didn't show like the court where the offenders were being tried was right opposite a mosque which in turn was adjacent to a set of properties in a Muslim renamed street used to facilitate the abuse acts when these people left there prayer sessions in the mosque and crossed the street to take part in the alleged abuse of under age girls.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

What? the best police force in the world? surely youre joking.

they refused to listen to or help hundreds of children who were being sexually assaulted, kidnapped, drugged, or listen to their parents. they told their parents if they locked their girls in then the parents wud be arrested for inoprisonment. According to ex manchester police, this is still going on.

Only today is has been revealed that an immigrant was beaten to death after making dozens of please to the police.

yet, supported by the bbc, they decend in numbers on innocent cliff richard and publicly announce the fact - thankfully they've paid thousands in compensation.

at the vale, you obviously were not at the wolves game, or sheffield gamde, after which the police apologised for their behaviour.

sure, the best police force in the world???

 

They do mess up badly on many occasions but compared to most I'd take ours. Plus the laws we have in place that protect us form the possible excesses of the police are invaluable....take the above, yes they messed up spectacularly badly but in most places in the world the police would not be held to account for such things..they'd get away with it

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Are you or have you been a member of the BNP, EDL or any similar group Mr RB ? You don't have to answer of course, if you feel uncomfortable about it.

 

 

this is creepy - Stasi style interrogating. really creepy, I'm very uncomfortable with it

 

That's a bit OTT..it's vale forum not a Mementum site

 

Plus he doesn't have to answer whether he's comfortable about the answer or not....this isn't the Spanish Inquisition

[Aussie Rules]

this is creepy - Stasi style interrogating. really creepy, I'm very uncomfortable with it

 

That's a bit OTT..it's vale forum not a Mementum site

 

Plus he doesn't have to answer whether he's comfortable about the answer or not....this isn't the Spanish Inquisition

 

JA, I think Jim was quoting another poster...though your reply would have been much the same

[Regal Beagle]

I have not said you were racist, I do wish to understand why you support racists.

If you see that as implying, that is your own problem (and guilt complex ?)

 

I had no reason to come on to the thread originally, so it is to my credit not yours that,as you say 'I cam on it after you did' - because it was being hijacked.

 

There have been endless other threads about the abuse of girls in places like Rochdale and where I live, and as I said I probably know far more about it than you do, having seen the effect it has on communities.

 

 

 

So people (not necessarily you) should not make it worse by introducing it again every time there is a mention of race, otherwise scars will never heal and eduction and reform of the previous mess will never be effective.

 

You say you are not allowed to debate when the vioctims are white - but you are doing just that, the true fact is you refuse to get involved when it is the other way round. And 'victims', your favourite word (not) seems to be fine to use when you choose.

 

I don't care if you reply all day long, but don't speak for others with your 'everyone can see what you are doing' as there are just as many can see you clearly through your posts and you certainly seem to have an issue with that.

What a load of nonsense.

 

Let's sweep it under the carpet because it's really affecting the communities. You'd be outraged on behalf of the victims if I said something like that.

 

You claim that I support racism, then accuse me of having a guilt complex, how is that not implying I'm a racist?

 

I've said this probably 5-6 times to you bea and you've not managed it yet, but please give me one quote where ive said racist things. Just one.

 

Otherwise, stop derailing threads with this utter, utter garbage.

 

Refuse to get involved when 'it's the other way round' ????? How on earth can you reach that conclusion?

 

It's tripe bea, your again implying I've got some sort of interest because of the ethnicities involved and you back that up by saying that I refuse to get involved when it is a white gang? How the hell do you know that?

 

Please just stop making stuff up.

[Bea Smith]

What a load of nonsense. I supopose that is a small improvement on starting a post with the usual 'you talk a load of carppp', which means you have lost the argument before you start. Adds nothing, and just shows your anger and frustration, which I enjoy.

 

Let's sweep it under the carpet because it's really affecting the communities. You'd be outraged on behalf of the victims if I said something like that. Never said that - quote directly if you wish, but don't lie about what was posted.

 

You claim that I support racism, then accuse me of having a guilt complex, how is that not implying I'm a racist? I have not called you racist. If you are wrestling with a problem about whether you are something or not, there is counselling available.

 

I've said this probably 5-6 times to you bea and you've not managed it yet, but please give me one quote where ive said racist things. Just one. As I have not called you racist, I don't need to. Just as you don't need to find anywhere where I have criticised people who wear green hats, for instance.

 

Otherwise, stop derailing threads with this utter, utter garbage.

Temper, temper sweetie. Shows you are losing again.

 

Refuse to get involved when 'it's the other way round' ????? How on earth can you reach that conclusion?

 

It's tripe bea, your again implying I've got some sort of interest because of the ethnicities involved and you back that up by saying that I refuse to get involved when it is a white gang? How the hell do you know that?

 

Please just stop making stuff up.That's rich!

 

 

[Bea Smith]

this is creepy - Stasi style interrogating. really creepy, I'm very uncomfortable with it

 

That's a bit OTT..it's vale forum not a Mementum site

 

Plus he doesn't have to answer whether he's comfortable about the answer or not....this isn't the Spanish Inquisition

 

Careful, subtle but done may times...the old JA post trick of changing the words slightly- just a tiny bit but enough to alter the meaning.

 

I said 'You don't have to answer of course, if you feel uncomfortable about it' and he answered, he was not uncomfortable (whether the answer was true or not is another matter)

 

But you altered it, to 'he doesn't have to answer whether he's comfortable about the answer or not' which has a completely different meaning.

 

Plus the fact that despite your post being manipulative, you should let him answer for himself, but you never do when your people find their posts logic in trouble. You cannot tell what is inside someone else's head and risk totally misrepresenting their views.

 

It also is not up to you to say whether he doesn't have to answer - of course anyone can choose not to answer any post they wish (as I had said) so that is just posting something to stir.

[Bea Smith]

It didnt happen in Thailand it happened in the UK... it was "suppressed" in the UK until the victim was murdered and an IPPC inquiry was held... it was suppressed by the police by not reporting the crimes reported to them... the same attitude is taken in stalking cases, which was also reported by the BBC the same day.

The disturbing thing about such cases is that no one knows about them until its to late, when its investigated after a tragedy.... I wonder how many never see the light of day, swept under the carpet, covered up, not investigated because a tragedy didnt occur/result

I also wonder why it took so long for police on the ground to come forward en-mass to admit their statements were altered or they lied after the liverpool disaster at sheffield.

I dont know the answers but if you dont ask the question you may never know... but I wouldnt dream of saying... count yourselves lucky you dont live in thailand.

 

A man died because of police failures in the UK... if as you suggest the UK police are the best in the world then the questions should be a lot tougher and the acceptable answers cant be "well it would be a lot worse if it had happened somewhere else"[/QUOTE]

 

It is very sad that a man died and there will always be police failures, it is impossible to get anything 100 per cent perfect.

I am very sorry for that man, for others who have been failed by the police in the past, and know that the police have not always done the right thing in this country - as in the miners strike for example.

Having said all that, I would rather have the UK police force than virtually any other (Dutch, scandanavian ones are probably acceptable) as they get more right than the vast majority of others. I would guess at 95 per cent right these days, some countries you'd be lucky to get 20 per cent and hundreds of citizens shot or wrongly imprisoned.

 

In addition, the UK police force is improving, I have seen the training given and know the methods used, and it is great, promoting diversity and tolerance as well as a range of views being allowed and acceptable.

 

Many other countries have police forces that seem to be going backwards.

 

It is never going to be perfect, but to see it improving and already better than almost all of the world, or even the best now, is very encouraging.