Company accounts

[LancyTony]

Not the best reading - but I think many of us have seen much worse? Thanks, Norman!

[geosname]

PORT VALE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED

Incorporation 05/02/2014

 

Is that just the company that has the ground?.... or is that a different company?

[ollyandpatch]

Let's pray that our luck changes with cup draws etc. Smurf deserves to get some of that money back. All clubs in the bottom 2 leagues must be living 'hand to mouth'

[geosname]

PORT VALE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED

Incorporation 05/02/2014

 

Is that just the company that has the ground?.... or is that a different company?

 

Forget I asked... I dont want to know.... I dont care

[soothsayer]

Year end accounts 30/6/15 just published.

 

Intangible assets £1.6M

Debtors £114k

Cash at bank £121k

Net liabilities £1.3M

 

Creditors amounts falling due after more than one year £3.2M

 

Shareholders funds (£1.3M)

 

£2.55M owed to MS as Directors loan. "The company continues to receive the support of its director by way of him not withdrawing monies owed to him and the introduction of funds as and when necessary."

 

What does all this mean?

 

Basically it means - like 95% of other clubs in L1 & L2 - we are being bank rolled by our chairman/board.

[fairportnick]

I have now seen the Facebook post. Alan's original post was misleading/wrong as Shareholders Funds are in fact negative which now makes sense to me , or not!! Doesn't look good , but the first year of a business is often not a good guide as to how it will perform in the future. Set up costs, clear out the crap in one go etc etc.

[valeparklife]

I think I'd assumed that all the money Smurf keeps putting in for extra players etc, was him 'paying' the money into the club, rather than lending it. It surprised me to see that PVFC owe Smurf the £2.5m. What interest (if any) is this loan paying?

[stupers]

Hard to say what's gone on really as I don't really think there's enough information released to form a valid conclusion (No Profit & Loss statement for instance, so can't say what's gone on). This also appears to be the 1st year of this company's accounts so nothing available to compare to a previous period.

 

Not concerned about the loan to Norm. That's how I suspected he would do things. It doesn't make any sense to purchase new shares in the business to invest. That's the thing I would be least concerned about.

 

Main notes for me (I am an accountant) looking at them are:

 

Cash at bank - Only £120k in there at there at the end of June. We're living on Norman's investments by the look of it as cashflow looks tight

Creditors - Once you take the loan out of the creditors amount we're left with £670k owed to people. Looks a lot compared to our debtor and cash situation

Profit & Loss Account - Presuming (without a P&L statement available) this is our loss for the year. Big loss but ties in with the investment we're seeing from Smurf. Obviously needs to come down significantly for this year. Without looking at a P&L it is hard to say.

 

My conclusion would be that we're fine whilst Smurf is putting the money in. Once that stops then income needs to raise significantly or we need to cut the budget by a good level. There's nothing to be concerned about due to our ownership model currently.

[SMURF]

I think I'd assumed that all the money Smurf keeps putting in for extra players etc, was him 'paying' the money into the club, rather than lending it. It surprised me to see that PVFC owe Smurf the £2.5m. What interest (if any) is this loan paying?

 

In simplistic terms since Dec 12 l have been putting in about 80k a month for what you see today about 1.25 x what ST monies raise

No interest has ever been paid or will be on my DLA

[Fosse69]

I think I'd assumed that all the money Smurf keeps putting in for extra players etc, was him 'paying' the money into the club, rather than lending it. It surprised me to see that PVFC owe Smurf the £2.5m. What interest (if any) is this loan paying?

As I see it all the money Norman spends, is totted up and show in his loan account. I assume his target is to sell the Vale as a Championship club, sales of developed players and cup runs to defray his expenses on the way. Where do the costs of replacing the floodlights, etc appear? Are they in a separate company?

[stupers]

I have now seen the Facebook post. Alan's original post was misleading/wrong as Shareholders Funds are in fact negative which now makes sense to me , or not!! Doesn't look good , but the first year of a business is often not a good guide as to how it will perform in the future. Set up costs, clear out the crap in one go etc etc.

 

Well as you say, it's never good to have a negative P&L account. But it's obviously offset by the directors loan in place.

 

I agree with your point about the 1st year of trading. There's nothing to compare against and so it's hard to draw any major conclusions. Like most football clubs, and privately owned businesses there is no requirement to provide lots of information, and no point in doing it either. The minimum has been provided to satisfy regulatory standards, which is the same as what I'd do as well. No business should put their cards on the table. It'd be madness to do so.

 

Anybody on here who manages to draw any significant conclusions from that set of accounts is either one of the greatest financial minds of our time, has inside information or is making most of it up.

[SMURF]

As I see it all the money Norman spends, is totted up and show in his loan account. I assume his target is to sell the Vale as a Championship club, sales of developed players and cup runs to defray his expenses on the way. Where do the costs of replacing the floodlights, etc appear? Are they in a separate company?

 

They will appear in this years Accounts

[SMURF]

Hard to say what's gone on really as I don't really think there's enough information released to form a valid conclusion (No Profit & Loss statement for instance, so can't say what's gone on). This also appears to be the 1st year of this company's accounts so nothing available to compare to a previous period.

 

Not concerned about the loan to Norm. That's how I suspected he would do things. It doesn't make any sense to purchase new shares in the business to invest. That's the thing I would be least concerned about.

 

Main notes for me (I am an accountant) looking at them are:

 

Cash at bank - Only £120k in there at there at the end of June. We're living on Norman's investments by the look of it as cashflow looks tight

Creditors - Once you take the loan out of the creditors amount we're left with £670k owed to people. Looks a lot compared to our debtor and cash situation

Profit & Loss Account - Presuming (without a P&L statement available) this is our loss for the year. Big loss but ties in with the investment we're seeing from Smurf. Obviously needs to come down significantly for this year. Without looking at a P&L it is hard to say.

 

My conclusion would be that we're fine whilst Smurf is putting the money in. Once that stops then income needs to raise significantly or we need to cut the budget by a good level. There's nothing to be concerned about due to our ownership model currently.

 

500k of creditors was the 5 month ST payment plan

[For Us All]

Let's pray that our luck changes with cup draws etc. Smurf deserves to get some of that money back. All clubs in the bottom 2 leagues must be living 'hand to mouth'

 

Hear,hear.

[stupers]

500k of creditors was the 5 month ST payment plan

 

That makes more sense to me now. Thanks for responding, you didn't have to so I appreciate it.