Malaysian airliner crash

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Latest I have read (from Guardian website)

 

"Officials said training given by Russia to its separatist proxies on air-defense weapons, which they have used in recent weeks to shoot down about a dozen aircraft, was a contributing factor. Ukrainian forces fighting the separatists have yet to fire a surface-to-air missile, intelligence officials said, as their conflict is on the ground."

 

My own view at the moment based on what I have seen and read is that the separatists were behind this using Russian supplied equipment but it was a case of mistaken identity regarding the plane they targetted

 

If Russia is supplying weapons to the separatists then it has to take some of the reponsibility.

 

As to the UK supplying weapons to Russia...it does need much closer scrutiny but as was said on Yes Minsiter, you are either in the arms business or you are not..if Russia wants British weapons it will get them one way or another

[JOHNNYAITCH]

No, whilst Putin can be nasty over some things (especially human rights)

 

"Nasty"???? Just nasty?? There is nothing worse than being "nasty" over human rights

[For Us All]

I always knew you were a Martian.

As you're so keen on 'action' why not fly off to Kiev and join the right sector lot and do your fighting yourself. Ah no, people like you want others to die in their cause, always the way.

 

I think you've got the wrong end on the stick,I never mentioned anything about fighting,I just want someone to do something about this outrage instead of talking about it.

I'm not a Martian by the way and if you would like an English translation of my earlier comments,here they are:-

 

I understand you.

Good luck.

I wish you all the best.

 

I hope you feel a little less angry.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

As there was a Ukraninan warplane nearby, one wonders if this was indeed a trap

 

Why would one wonder that? Why would one wonder that the less likely is what happened? There is no absolute proof either way at the moment but the Ukranians risking one of their own planes to lay a trap which resulted in a civilain flight being accidentally shot down is surely less likely than some of the alternatives? Are you suggesting that the Ukranians 'tricked' the separatists into shooting down the plane?

 

I heard that Neil Armsrong (who isn't really dead cos not landing on the moon gave him immortality) hiding behind a grassy knoll fired the missile as part of the moon landing cover up which someone on the plane was about to expose

[Jacko51]

We should just withdraw from the 2018 World Cup. That'll teach 'em.

[Bea Smith]

"Nasty"???? Just nasty?? There is nothing worse than being "nasty" over human rights

 

The word was used because it is more fitting on something like say, gay rights. Whilst totally disagreeing with Putin's stance and thoroughly condemning it, there is a bit of difference between Russia and countries like Uganda.

 

Uganda has just passed a law where gay people can be put to death, and several other African countries plus ironically, Malaysia I believe, have ludicrous punishments on this issue. Hitler sent gays to concentration camps where many died. As far as I am aware, Putin hasn't done a lot more than ban or break up gay pride marches. It still makes him a bigot on this issue and clearly in the wrong, but not a monster.

 

Very little difference in fact from Thatcher's Section 28 anti-gay law in fact - wrong in the view of many but not quite the same as the Iranians hanging young men for being gay.

 

It was pointed out that there are a few gay clubs in that resort where the Russian winter Olympics was held.

So whilst that is wrong, the word 'nasty' seems more appropriate than 'evil' or something like that.

Bottom line is that what you wrote 'There is nothing worse than being nasty over human rights' is not quite right, as the degree of nastiness can vary.

[Bea Smith]

We should just withdraw from the 2018 World Cup. That'll teach 'em.

 

You are forgetting that this is a free country where going or not going is up to the relevant sporting authority. The wicked witch tried to stop our athletes going to Moscow 1980, that classic Ovett v Coe situation - but thankfully they wouldn't play her game and refused to mix politics and sport.

Then of course, there is the small matter of whether England qualify, and whether we have a better government in power by then.

Perhaps you were being ironic (or just a little naughty stirring, hard to believe but....)

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The word was used because it is more fitting on something like say, gay rights. Whilst totally disagreeing with Putin's stance and thoroughly condemning it, there is a bit of difference between Russia and countries like Uganda.

 

Uganda has just passed a law where gay people can be put to death, and several other African countries plus ironically, Malaysia I believe, have ludicrous punishments on this issue. Hitler sent gays to concentration camps where many died. As far as I am aware, Putin hasn't done a lot more than ban or break up gay pride marches. It still makes him a bigot on this issue and clearly in the wrong, but not a monster.

 

I know..I've raised if before on here..why for example we don't boycott cricket tours of the West Indies given the appalling record on gay rights of some of the countries in that area

 

To be honest Putin may have done a lot worse and we'd never know given the oppression of the media in Russia..we'll find out the full truth some years after he has gone

 

Just cos he's 'only' nasty on some things doesn't mean that ultimately he isn't way beyond nasty...murder in and outside Russia, supplying arms to murderers and murderous regimes, Chechen Wars and who knows what he did whilst in the KGB..just some examples..I doubt he spent his time just being nasty...if only

[JOHNNYAITCH]

You are forgetting that this is a free country where going or not going is up to the relevant sporting authority. The wicked witch tried to stop our athletes going to Moscow 1980, that classic Ovett v Coe situation - but thankfully they wouldn't play her game and refused to mix politics and sport.

 

The FA is free to withdraw..esp as it's a Blatter tournament

[For Us All]

Republican senator John McCain,another one talking the talk,blaming everybody else and doing nothing.:rolleyes:

 

"It's a joke and they will do nothing and I predicted they would do nothing," Mr McCain told The Telegraph. "They will continue to do nothing until the day they become independent of Russian energy.Until then they will talk."

Mr McCain said in the face of European inaction it would be helpful for Britain to move ahead unilaterally with banking sanctions but he doubted the British government had the resolve.

"It would help but even they're not going to do that because they want all that money into London," he said.

The former presidential contender called Mr Putin "a KGB thug" who was was using his influence with the separatists to "call the shots" in eastern Ukraine.

[Tone]

Republican senator John McCain,another one talking the talk,blaming everybody else and doing nothing.:rolleyes:

 

"It's a joke and they will do nothing and I predicted they would do nothing," Mr McCain told The Telegraph. "They will continue to do nothing until the day they become independent of Russian energy.Until then they will talk."

Mr McCain said in the face of European inaction it would be helpful for Britain to move ahead unilaterally with banking sanctions but he doubted the British government had the resolve.

"It would help but even they're not going to do that because they want all that money into London," he said.

The former presidential contender called Mr Putin "a KGB thug" who was was using his influence with the separatists to "call the shots" in eastern Ukraine.

 

John McCain is not able to do anything. That's up to the President to present proposals to Congress. Or, as Obama's fond of doing, taking action without even consulting Congress (usually when it suits him).

[Jacko51]

Perhaps you were being ironic

 

Well spotted. ;)

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

We should just withdraw from the 2018 World Cup. That'll teach 'em.

 

It would still give us precisely the same chance of winning it!! :)

[Paul6754]

Republican senator John McCain,another one talking the talk,blaming everybody else and doing nothing.:rolleyes:

 

"It's a joke and they will do nothing and I predicted they would do nothing," Mr McCain told The Telegraph. "They will continue to do nothing until the day they become independent of Russian energy.Until then they will talk."

Mr McCain said in the face of European inaction it would be helpful for Britain to move ahead unilaterally with banking sanctions but he doubted the British government had the resolve.

"It would help but even they're not going to do that because they want all that money into London," he said.

The former presidential contender called Mr Putin "a KGB thug" who was was using his influence with the separatists to "call the shots" in eastern Ukraine.

 

John McCain is a total bozo, anyone who picks Sarah Palin as a running mate for President is off his rocker.

[andy jones]

Looking at the online news story of the plane crash today and it's surrounded by three Ryanair adverts advertising the same destination... Eindhoven. Is it just me that finds it offensive for them to be promoting flights to the destination that all the bodies are being brought home to?