Malaysian airliner crash

[Santa]

If you lived in Russia, this is what you’d believe about the crash of MH17

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

No it's what their press would try to make you believe. I have a friend who lives near their border with Finland with her family. People there know and are worried what implications this could lead to.

[For Us All]

Meanwhile 'Useless Europe' do nothing.

[Santa]

Meanwhile 'Useless Europe' do nothing.

'Useless everyone' has done nothing. It's either that or start World War 3.

[For Us All]

Putin can do whatever he likes and he knows it,nobody has the ba11s to take him on.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

So what do we suggest, we just sit back like clowns and let scum like this blow people out of the sky?

 

I agree with FUA, totally useless.

[Santa]

Well, we could take military action. But it would be a bit silly given Russia's military capability. Putin knows we won't go to war over this.

 

The other option is sanctions. Now this is where it gets tricky in Europe. Russian oligarchs are fuelling a property bubble in London and their money is partly why we have started to see some belated GDP growth in the UK.

 

Russia is a huge trading partner for a lot of EU countries. They already have a fragile economy and sanctions would affect Russia's ability to do business with countries like Germany and cause job losses there.

 

Squeezing the Russian economy would also cause energy prices to rise, in turn threatening any economic recovery over here.

 

In short, it's a right old mess and nobody's decided the best way to respond to this without actually harming themselves in the process.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Putin can do whatever he likes and he knows it,nobody has the ba11s to take him on.

 

How should they 'take him on'?

[For Us All]

How should they 'take him on'?

 

1) Move toward banning American and European companies from investment in Russian oil and gas,an initiative that can begin by banning the sharing of technologies in the oil and gas sectors with Russia.Russia’s energy sector depends entirely on Western technologies and investment, and this will paralyze Russia’s primary cash machine,raise the cost for Russia domestically to fund the insurgency in Ukraine and further squeeze Putin’s cronies.

2) Stop buying oil from Russia’s Druzhba pipeline which transports the largest amount of Russian oil across Europe,or consider ways to begin sanctioning the purchase of Russian oil.Even with turbulence in the Middle East,some of the supply can be replaced by other sources and symbolically it will challenge the idea in Russia that Russian energy exports in Europe are monolithic.

3) Ban military cooperation with Russia.The United States has already halted all military cooperation and the Europeans should follow suit.It is especially important to end sales of game-changing military and defense technologies by NATO allies to Russia.This includes the absolutely shameless intention of France to deliver the sophisticated Mistral helicopter carriers to the Russian navy.As with the oil sector,Russia is allowed to use technology to devastating effect against the very nations that it has purchased from.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

1) Move toward banning American and European companies from investment in Russian oil and gas,an initiative that can begin by banning the sharing of technologies in the oil and gas sectors with Russia.Russia’s energy sector depends entirely on Western technologies and investment, and this will paralyze Russia’s primary cash machine,raise the cost for Russia domestically to fund the insurgency in Ukraine and further squeeze Putin’s cronies.

 

In other words sanctions

 

This would also do massive harm to Western Europe and its people and also to ordinary Russians

 

2) Stop buying oil from Russia’s Druzhba pipeline which transports the largest amount of Russian oil across Europe,or consider ways to begin sanctioning the purchase of Russian oil.Even with turbulence in the Middle East,some of the supply can be replaced by other sources and symbolically it will challenge the idea in Russia that Russian energy exports in Europe are monolithic.

 

IMO not practical...the people and businesses in Europe dependant upon htis fuel would not stand for it

 

 

3) Ban military cooperation with Russia.The United States has already halted all military cooperation and the Europeans should follow suit.It is especially important to end sales of game-changing military and defense technologies by NATO allies to Russia.This includes the absolutely shameless intention of France to deliver the sophisticated Mistral helicopter carriers to the Russian navy.As with the oil sector,Russia is allowed to use technology to devastating effect against the very nations that it has purchased from.

 

Russia plans to use these helicopters againg France?

 

But seriously defo in favour of reducing (eliminating) military sales to Russia..although that might mean they just go elsewhere reducing our leverage with them

 

Sanctions are the way fwd but there is a difficult balance to be struck between what's achievable, what's effective and what won't harm Europe and the US

[For Us All]

In other words sanctions

 

This would also do massive harm to Western Europe and its people and also to ordinary Russians

 

 

 

IMO not practical...the people and businesses in Europe dependant upon htis fuel would not stand for it

 

 

 

 

Russia plans to use these helicopters againg France?

 

But seriously defo in favour of reducing (eliminating) military sales to Russia..although that might mean they just go elsewhere reducing our leverage with them

 

Sanctions are the way fwd but there is a difficult balance to be struck between what's achievable, what's effective and what won't harm Europe and the US

 

I get the distinct impression that the Russians have the City of London over a barrel?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I get the distinct impression that the Russians have the City of London over a barrel?

 

They are certainly very big players and the high rollers will already have moved a load of their dosh around in anticipation of assets/accounts being frozen. It is ofetn impossible to trace money etc back to an individual anyway

 

It's all about striking a balance isn't it..do somethin that will have some impact where you want it to without it having an even bigger impact where you don't want it to..hence going after individuals for its political impact back in mother Russia rather than the actual businesses which will impact elsewhere

[Bea Smith]

Putin can do whatever he likes and he knows it,nobody has the ba11s to take him on.

 

It is painfully obvious that all you want to do is 'get at' Russia, either militarily or otherwise and I am certain that you have no regard for the tragic lives lost in this disaster. To you, Tone, some (not all) US politicians and a few Western leaders and most of all the Ukranians in Kiev, this is a golden opportunity not to be missed.

 

There is still no actual evidence of any kind, proper proof, of what occurred- though it looks likely that the event was an accident but caused by the defence forces of Donetsk/Lugansk. As there was a Ukraninan warplane nearby, one wonders if this was indeed a trap. REP - yes people who kill others are scum, but if your town was being bombed and shelled and hundred of civilians killed, would you not want to fire at the planes attacking you? The (EU) backed OECD have said over 250 CIVILIANS have died from Kiev military murder in Lugansk alone, and this total is likely to be low. Tone, where are your Christian thoughts for these people? You say Putin has blood on his hands, what about Kiev. And how much human suffering has the US caused by destroying Iraq as a country and sparking off scenarios that have seen nearly a million deaths there?

 

Even so, the US has said it has absolutely no evidence that Russia was involved in the shooting down, technical help or supply of the weaponry (which happens to be part of the Kiev forces arsenal too, so was quite possibly captured from them) - so all this anti-Russia hatred is just for the sake of it.

 

Doha, Tone - I wonder how upset and angry you got when the US shot down that Iran passenger jet a few years ago, or whether you wanted sanctions for the millions murdered in Rwanda, the slaughter in Sudan, or the appalling scenes from Gaza- no, didn't suit your agenda. I'd suggest your attitude is hugely disrespectful towards those on that Malaysian plane, as you are using them as pawns in a political hate game.

 

And all this stuff about more sanctions that will just hurt individuals, the European public and ordinary Russians - just look at the Independent today (or do you think Russia Today controls that paper?) and see how British Arms sales to Russia have grown massively - yet that two-faced deceitful pompous ass Cameron has the cheek to criticise the French for fulfilling a much smaller warship contract.

 

No, whilst Putin can be nasty over some things (especially human rights) and whilst Russia Today may bias its coverage (but no more than Fox/right wing US and UK Murdoch papers) - only idiots would escalate this and I hope that the voices of reason - probably Angela Merkel and to some extent Obama - will work WITH both Ukraine (Kiev), and Russia and the Donetsk/Lugansk people to stop any more bloodshed and tragedy.

[For Us All]

It is painfully obvious that all you want to do is 'get at' Russia, either militarily or otherwise and I am certain that you have no regard for the tragic lives lost in this disaster. To you, Tone, some (not all) US politicians and a few Western leaders and most of all the Ukranians in Kiev, this is a golden opportunity not to be missed.

 

There is still no actual evidence of any kind, proper proof, of what occurred- though it looks likely that the event was an accident but caused by the defence forces of Donetsk/Lugansk. As there was a Ukraninan warplane nearby, one wonders if this was indeed a trap. REP - yes people who kill others are scum, but if your town was being bombed and shelled and hundred of civilians killed, would you not want to fire at the planes attacking you? The (EU) backed OECD have said over 250 CIVILIANS have died from Kiev military murder in Lugansk alone, and this total is likely to be low. Tone, where are your Christian thoughts for these people? You say Putin has blood on his hands, what about Kiev. And how much human suffering has the US caused by destroying Iraq as a country and sparking off scenarios that have seen nearly a million deaths there?

 

Even so, the US has said it has absolutely no evidence that Russia was involved in the shooting down, technical help or supply of the weaponry (which happens to be part of the Kiev forces arsenal too, so was quite possibly captured from them) - so all this anti-Russia hatred is just for the sake of it.

 

Doha, Tone - I wonder how upset and angry you got when the US shot down that Iran passenger jet a few years ago, or whether you wanted sanctions for the millions murdered in Rwanda, the slaughter in Sudan, or the appalling scenes from Gaza- no, didn't suit your agenda. I'd suggest your attitude is hugely disrespectful towards those on that Malaysian plane, as you are using them as pawns in a political hate game.

 

And all this stuff about more sanctions that will just hurt individuals, the European public and ordinary Russians - just look at the Independent today (or do you think Russia Today controls that paper?) and see how British Arms sales to Russia have grown massively - yet that two-faced deceitful pompous ass Cameron has the cheek to criticise the French for fulfilling a much smaller warship contract.

 

No, whilst Putin can be nasty over some things (especially human rights) and whilst Russia Today may bias its coverage (but no more than Fox/right wing US and UK Murdoch papers) - only idiots would escalate this and I hope that the voices of reason - probably Angela Merkel and to some extent Obama - will work WITH both Ukraine (Kiev), and Russia and the Donetsk/Lugansk people to stop any more bloodshed and tragedy.

 

Ya tebya panimayu

Udachi

Zhelayu vsego khoroshego

[Bea Smith]

Ya tebya panimayu

Udachi

Zhelayu vsego khoroshego

 

 

I always knew you were a Martian.

As you're so keen on 'action' why not fly off to Kiev and join the right sector lot and do your fighting yourself. Ah no, people like you want others to die in their cause, always the way.