Margaret Thatcher

[Jacko51]

Interesting post which I read about Thatcher on another football message board. Can't disagree with it. It also foes some way to answering those who keep asking, if she was so bad, who actually voted for her?

 

"Labour had made itself unelectable in its lurch to the far left and it took a LONG time for Kinnock to rebuild it during which the Thatcher juggernaut held sway. The Falklands invasion gifted her a second election win (which she might NOT have got otherwise) on a wave of justified jubilation. Then we got the miners' strike in which she was very fortunate to be pitted (sorry) against an imbecile who fell into every single trap she'd set for him, and who gave an impression of Thatcher V the forces of insurrection. By the time that was over, she was pretty well impregnable.

 

So, it COULD be argued that Thatcher didn't win all those elections but she was gifted them by an ineffectual and hopelessly divided opposition, and we are still living with the consequences; a meaner, money-obsessed 'society'. That is why, although I despised Thatcher and all her minions, I loathe those left-wing idiots much, much more for leaving the British working class to her tender mercies while they ****ed away with their pathetic in-fighting. "

[JOHNNYAITCH]

"she was pretty well impregnable."

 

Denis managed it

[Jacko51]

"she was pretty well impregnable."

 

Denis managed it

 

Not after the Miners' Strike he didn't. ;)

[Warren]

Warren, please don't copy and paste a textbook word for word we aren't at school.

 

Even more so when it's just reeled off facts and no interpretation.

 

The interpretation is that Thatcher has no reason to engage in a close relationship with a leader on a continent so far away except to be purposeful. The purpose is described in what I posted and related directly to winning the war against a military junta imprisoning and killing civilians on a British territory.

[Jacko51]

The interpretation is that Thatcher has no reason to engage in a close relationship with a leader on a continent so far away except to be purposeful. The purpose is described in what I posted and related directly to winning the war against a military junta imprisoning and killing civilians on a British territory.

 

Churchill allied Britain with Stalin yet he got a full state funeral!

[JOHNNYAITCH]

True Geo

 

State ownership does work but not by the same standards/criterias as private ownership.

 

One should not apply the same success criteria to a state owned industry as one would to a privately owned industry..but let's not go there on this thread pls :D

[For Us All]

Is the BBC at fault?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306570/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-Weaned-BBCs-hatred-wonder-young-rejoice-death.html

[Warren]

So, it COULD be argued that Thatcher didn't win all those elections but she was gifted them by an ineffectual and hopelessly divided opposition, and we are still living with the consequences; a meaner, money-obsessed 'society'. That is why, although I despised Thatcher and all her minions, I loathe those left-wing idiots much, much more for leaving the British working class to her tender mercies while they ****ed away with their pathetic in-fighting. "

 

Thatcher won elections because she was necessary at the time and carried out important changes needed. I experienced the 1970's and that experience is necessary to understand why Thatcher was important. You can't get that importance from text books retrospectively.

 

In the 1970's the UK was called the sick man of Europe and it was. We had industrial relations problems undermining the economy alongside high price inflation and wage inflation. But underneath this we had leaders of the trades unions intent on bringing down capitalism and replacing it with left wing socialism and communism. They deliberately caused disputes to further this aim and a less educated workforce than today followed them to their own ruin. These left wing union leaders existed all levels, not just at the top. For example Red Robo at British Leyland.

 

In addition at political level the Labour Party had nationalised large parts of industry which were consequently uncompetitive internationally and monopolistic in the UK. Industrial disputes in nationwide and nationalised industries including cars and energy brought the country to its knees. It was essential that left wing ideology was defeated and responsible capitalism returned.

 

This fight was essential to win and Thatcher won it. Unfortunately for her and the country perhaps, some of the aftermath of the fight was not well managed and the closure of coal mines with inadequate support is an example of that. That is the main criticism she is subjected to with some justification. However all of that is mixed up in an inevitable economic trend taking hold of the western world which persisted from the 1970's through to now - post industrial society and the movement of production to lower cost countries facilitating higher standards of living for most, but change and suffering in the old industrial heart lands. I am visiting Sheffield a lot at present and one can't help but be struck by the space in the city left by former industry closing down which to be fair has been regenerated.

 

Coming back to the football, Thatcher was not responsible for Hillsbrough and the FA / club should never have been holding the match there. The stadium did not have a valid safety certificate and the police on the day were in charge. In the aftermath she ordered a public enquiry, a standard response of government, and she had a reasonable right to expect that to reach valid conclusions. Like everyone she was likely staggered by the extent of perversion of the course of justice and the extent to which the South Yorkshire Police engaged in this. Just as I am others underestimated the extent to which the previous board could mismanage Port Vale, she and a lot of others underestimated this.

[Jacko51]

Bad taste but I chuckled!

 

[Paul6754]

Interesting post which I read about Thatcher on another football message board. Can't disagree with it. It also foes some way to answering those who keep asking, if she was so bad, who actually voted for her?

 

"Labour had made itself unelectable in its lurch to the far left and it took a LONG time for Kinnock to rebuild it during which the Thatcher juggernaut held sway. The Falklands invasion gifted her a second election win (which she might NOT have got otherwise) on a wave of justified jubilation. Then we got the miners' strike in which she was very fortunate to be pitted (sorry) against an imbecile who fell into every single trap she'd set for him, and who gave an impression of Thatcher V the forces of insurrection. By the time that was over, she was pretty well impregnable.

 

So, it COULD be argued that Thatcher didn't win all those elections but she was gifted them by an ineffectual and hopelessly divided opposition, and we are still living with the consequences; a meaner, money-obsessed 'society'. That is why, although I despised Thatcher and all her minions, I loathe those left-wing idiots much, much more for leaving the British working class to her tender mercies while they ****ed away with their pathetic in-fighting. "

 

The Unions played a major part in the downfall of the Labour party in the 70's which ultimately led to their own demise since. Middle ground voters became aware of the concept of Union funded/controlled MP's and the damage the unions could do and IMO, changed allegiance to the Conservatives in 1979 not knowing what they were getting into with Margaret Thatcher. Scargill continued the Union self destruction and demise of the associated Labour Party and as has alredy been said, there was just no one credible to run against her in the 80's early 90's. Kinnock looked pomising at one stage but being knocked over by a wave on Bighton beach (?) didn't help him.

[blackdog]

The Unions played a major part in the downfall of the Labour party in the 70's which ultimately led to their own demise since. Middle ground voters became aware of the concept of Union funded/controlled MP's and the damage the unions could do and IMO, changed allegiance to the Conservatives in 1979 not knowing what they were getting into with Margaret Thatcher. Scargill continued the Union self destruction and demise of the associated Labour Party and as has alredy been said, there was just no one credible to run against her in the 80's early 90's. Kinnock looked pomising at one stage but being knocked over by a wave on Bighton beach (?) didn't help him.

 

Kinnock promised every one in the country would have a job......No one in Liverpool voted for him.

[JohnJames]

The biggest problem with state ownership is...... it doesnt work [in the main]

 

Whereas creating cartels that charge as much as they like by fixing markets do? The state Gas Electricity and Water boards all worked well and via the standing charge Government also had a revenue stream.

The NCB and British Steel provided millions of jobs and were largely profitable and benefited huge communities and provided work for the masses

State ownership appears to be working for RBS and Lloyds.

British Railways were created because the Railway Companies had to be bailed out.

Thatcher was only interested in profit and didn't believe in society

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Whereas creating cartels that charge as much as they like by fixing markets do? The state Gas Electricity and Water boards all worked well and via the standing charge Government also had a revenue stream.

The NCB and British Steel provided millions of jobs and were largely profitable and benefited huge communities and provided work for the masses

State ownership appears to be working for RBS and Lloyds.

British Railways were created because the Railway Companies had to be bailed out.

Thatcher was only interested in profit and didn't believe in society

 

Quite right..as i said earlier, the success criteria for a state run industry is not the same as for a private industry...money/profit is not the bottom line for state run industries and nor should it be..ensuring essential services, providing necessary infrastructure, social stability, a stable structure to wider society and local communities, protecting those most at risk from market forces...all sorts of less tangible benefits that may make a loss but we'd be a lot worse off without them..as we are in many ways

 

The balance has to be right and for me it isn't

[Andyregs]

Is the BBC at fault?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306570/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-Weaned-BBCs-hatred-wonder-young-rejoice-death.html

 

The bbc, football fans, the left...daily mail is loving thatcher popping her clogs more than anyone, because its allowing them to spew hate at all the people wants to.

[For Us All]

The bbc, football fans, the left...daily mail is loving thatcher popping her clogs more than anyone, because its allowing them to spew hate at all the people wants to.

 

Ed Milliband has come up in my estimation after his very respectful speech in the House of Commons today.It's not all hateful but apparently according to Sky News there is a celebration party arranged in Trafalgar Square for Saturday night,which could be quite interesting.Students no doubt will be the instigators in this and will hopefully meet their match.