1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

I don't want to go over this again, but why are people still going on about who we signed in January as some sort of barometer to who we sign in the summer.

We were already relegated when Brady came in. We were too far adrift. He had access to the absolute dregs of the barrel. Players that were either unfit or that no one else wanted. Magliore is really the only one you can really throw shade at Brady. He tried him and quickly realised he wasn't up to it and has barely played him since.

He brought in Gray and Hernandez as chancers to try and get fit and make a difference with their quality. Unfortunately Gray is well past it and Hernandez looks to have quality but was so unfit he just couldn't turn it around.

We're now going to be one of the biggest teams in league 2, with one of the biggest budgets and a manager with a proven track record of doing well in this league. We're likely to be an attractive prospect for another Tolaj type from non league as well as some of the better players from league 2.

It's a completely clean slate as far as I'm concerned.

Sent from my SM-A137F using onevalefan mobile app
 

Simple LV, One of the best predictors of the future is the past (If most things remain the same) so unless there's a sea change in recruitment personnel and/or strategy I will hold my breath on the summer's recruitment and cross my fingers 'cause IMHO the Jan transfer window was not good enough, not even close.

We weren't already relegated when Brady came in, still plenty of points to play for. If Brady and Carol thought we were down then why bother signing anyone.

To get the risk taken on Gray and Hernandez but then to barely play them until it was all but over was bizarre.

 

1 minute ago, NW9Valiant said:

They do. They were part of a committee the club were listening to prior to hiring Brady.

I did know that .thank s  I do hope they keep listening to sproey  He can help vale a lot .  Good Luck to The Vale for next season . Come on the vale 

4 hours ago, NW9Valiant said:

Some will work, some will not. That's part and parcel. Got nothing but hope at the moment the 'right' ones work out best. The only thing you can say about the 7 that came in is that they have contributed in some way to ensure we don't finish the season rock bottom, which we look like avoiding -- and of course, an FA Cup Quarter Final.

None of the 7 worked NW9, none of the 7 had the significant, consistent impact Vale/Brady required. I get the risk taken on Gray and Hernandez, these two and Archer had their moments but Archer was horrifically inconsistent.

Hardly playing Gray and/or Hernandez was bizarre and playing Hernandez mostly at wing back was even more bizarre.

Edited April 23Apr 23 by Paul6754

Simple LV, One of the best predictors of the future is the past (If most things remain the same) so unless there's a sea change in recruitment personnel and/or strategy I will hold my breath on the summer's recruitment and cross my fingers 'cause IMHO the Jan transfer window was not good enough, not even close.
We weren't already relegated when Brady came in, still plenty of points to play for. If Brady and Carol thought we were down then why bother signing anyone.
To get the risk taken on Gray and Hernandez but then to barely play them until it was all but over was bizarre.
 

They had to try Paul. If they just admit defeat and don't sign anyone then the optics aren't great. Anyone with eyes could see we were unlikely to get the promotion form we needed to get out of trouble.

He took a risk on signing Gray and Hernandez, hoping that by the time they were both fully fit, we'd at least be in touching distance of safety and then at that point they might make a difference with the extra quality we hoped they'd bring. Unfortunately, the risk didn't pay off but I can see the idea.

You simply can't judge a transfer window where we were in the absolute worst negotiating position to a future one where we're likely to be in a very strong one relative to our league.

You're usually pretty erudite and level headed Paul, so I'm unsure why you've got this take.

Right back is probably one of the easiest positions to play. Hernandez wasn't fit enough unfortunately.

21 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

None of the 7 worked NW9, none of the 7 had the significant, consistent impact Vale/Brady required. I get the risk taken on Gray and Hernandez, these two and Archer had their moments but Archer was horrifically inconsistent.

Hardly playing Gray and/or Hernandez was bizarre and playing Hernandez mostly at wing back was even more bizarre.

 

We have played 26 games under Brady including F.A cup and Vertu trophy .

I dont think people should sugarcoat the wins too much v Bristol Rovers, we made hard work of that ,v Fleetwood i thought they deserved take us too extra time ,v Bristol City scored with one of very few home goal attempts v Sunderland yes we won but different if they hadnt missed a sitter ,we had hardly any attempts v them aswell 

Deserved ones v Peterboro Bolton Northampton away Bolton in vertu trophy ,underwhelming one v Rotherham where if they headed anywhere other than down Gaucis throat they had of scored ..

So in 26 games he as got the team deserving of winning in 4 of them ..

Any more im trying think i probably missed them .

Hernandez is a very good player, should have been used more especially in attacking positions, ,not used because maybe has a character like Paton /Curtis ,,fun ones ,i get the feeling Brady likes robotic athletes who like too draw 0- 0.

Not impressed at all in standard of games under him i mean we get a 0-0 v Huddersfield Barnsley with them having 19 goal attempts each how many did we have ?

Gray criminally not used he surely had of offered more than Sherif and Brown put together ,mind you Brady only plays 1 up front as he as too have 8 defenders on the 5 mins when stockley snd Gray were on we looked much better for it v Barnsley and whats happened since none in team...

Crikey cannot wait see what he brings in 

Its very worrying 

Edited April 23Apr 23 by Dipepa delight

Recruitment this summer is the polar opposite situation to January…

11 adrift who wants to come? Almost certain relegation.

Now however we are a big pull in League Two, with MK likely gone possibly the biggest budget in the league, certainly top 3 or 4 likely the pool of players will be totally different.

Like last time we went down you go from scraping the barrel in January to then signing Byers, Curtis, Tolaj and so on.

We’ve still got to get it right of course but I trust Brady to do that more than Moore and actually use the squad better.

I keep saying this but Burton were in the same position last season. Maybe even further adrift and they managed to sign some very good players and stay up. 

The players are out there. But instead we go for has beens, young kids on loan who've never played at this level, or some clown who’s playing in the 36th tier of football and is more injury prone than George Byers. 

It will of course be different in the summer. But I’m not optimistic, I see Brady as someone who will look at has beens or players slightly past their prime and he’s had a complete disregard of good youth players like Shorrock. 

We will see, I think our first signing / extension will be Magloire for another season. 

22 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

They had to try Paul. If they just admit defeat and don't sign anyone then the optics aren't great. Anyone with eyes could see we were unlikely to get the promotion form we needed to get out of trouble.

Of course they had to try cause there were still plenty of points to play for and glaring holes to be filled, creativity/a winger, a goal scorer. It was your post that said we were already down, we weren't.
 

22 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

He took a risk on signing Gray and Hernandez, hoping that by the time they were both fully fit, we'd at least be in touching distance of safety and then at that point they might make a difference with the extra quality we hoped they'd bring. Unfortunately, the risk didn't pay off but I can see the idea.

You simply can't judge a transfer window where we were in the absolute worst negotiating position to a future one where we're likely to be in a very strong one relative to our league.

As I posted, I get the risk taken on Gray and Hernandez but to not play them much, particularly Hernandez 'til April was bizarre. Hernandez beats payers with skill rather than pace a la John Robertson of Forest fame, to play Onel in the physically demanding position of wing back didn't make sense to me. Gray looked to be approaching some level off fitness against Stevenage but then barely played.

The Jan transfer window can easily be judged as poor because none of the 7 signings made sufficient and consistent impact that Vale/Brady required of them.

A negotiating position can be improved depending on what is bought to the table. The focus in the Jan transfer window should have been to sign quality players to keep Vale in Lge 1.

None of us fans knew the pool of players who were potentially available in Jan.

22 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

You're usually pretty erudite and level headed Paul, so I'm unsure why you've got this take.

LV, Because it makes sense. The Jan transfer window was the chance to fill in the holes left by Moore, Brady inherited a tough task but he could have made a better fight of it with more astute signings in the Jan window.  We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

 

 

They had to try Paul. If they just admit defeat and don't sign anyone then the optics aren't great. Anyone with eyes could see we were unlikely to get the promotion form we needed to get out of trouble.

He took a risk on signing Gray and Hernandez, hoping that by the time they were both fully fit, we'd at least be in touching distance of safety and then at that point they might make a difference with the extra quality we hoped they'd bring. Unfortunately, the risk didn't pay off but I can see the idea.

You simply can't judge a transfer window where we were in the absolute worst negotiating position to a future one where we're likely to be in a very strong one relative to our league.

You're usually pretty erudite and level headed Paul, so I'm unsure why you've got this take.

 

All of this is fair but Burton managed some good signings and stayed up from a similar position last year. 
signing the likes of Magloire just smacked of desperation and I do worry that Brady’s contact list is very limited, add in our ‘scouting’ department and we have a recipe for failure. 

4 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

None of the 7 worked NW9, none of the 7 had the significant, consistent impact Vale/Brady required. I get the risk taken on Gray and Hernandez, these two and Archer had their moments but Archer was horrifically inconsistent.

Hardly playing Gray and/or Hernandez was bizarre and playing Hernandez mostly at wing back was even more bizarre.

I am looking forward to @robf's take at the end of the season when he reviews the squad ahead of the retained list. But let's go through the 7. I agree that they weren't good enough, but if they weren't signed, I actually fear we wouldn't have won any games at all.

IN:

❌ Tyler Magloire - Replaces Jesse Debrah who exited for a loan. Mistake prone, but provides cover. Overall, a failure, but needed during our fixture congestion. Verdict: Thanks, but no thanks. Release.

❌ Andre Gray - Arrived to some fan fare on deadline day as we are desperate for a striker. Momentary flashes of technique on the ball when he appeared, with a vital assist to send us through to the 6th Round of the FA Cup. However, largely non-existent. Verdict: Failure.

✔️ Onel Hernandez - Anonymous for most of his spell as woefully out of fitness. Regains some to make a starring role far too late contributing to goal at Peterbrough and a MOTM worthy appearance at home v Wigan. Wants to say. Verdict: Jury still out, but keep. 

❌ Grant Ward - Some sub appearances to fill the gaps during a period of injuries in our midfield. Nothing offered in terms of role for next season. Verdict: Failure

Loans:

✔️ Archer - Flashes of real quality including a memorable free kick brace away to Peterborough. Asserts himself as chief FK taker, and provides key role in the Sunderland goal to send us through to quarter final. Verdict: Success - would love to keep him but will Luton send him back to continue his loan?

❌ Campbell - Stepping up with an assist away to Stevenage and provides some much needed cover at the back in a busy period. Verdict: Thanks but no thanks. 

✔️ Sherif - Asserts himself as defacto first choice as loan striker to relieve pressure on Waine. Scored late late equaliser vs Luton and should have earned a brace at Peterbrough. Verdict: Success, but a very slim one. Keep? Only if better options not forthcoming.

 

Overall: 30-40% mild hit rate, but we needed a hit rate closer to 80% if we were going to stay up. That was already a tall order. We couldn't manage that. And I'm probably being generous to Sherif, but there's something there to work with. 

Do think the players IN should have arrived fit, they largely did not. That's why it is 'bizarre' they rarely contributed. Hernandez should be playing up the pitch as a winger, but Brady decided that we can only play with a back 5, mostly. Afterall, it's what the team were coached in. 

Your assessment on Archer is very harsh IMO - what are you expecting? One of the few players to give us any contributions. Consistency is an issue with all players at this level, but if we single him out, we're not left with any of the contributions he gave and we end up even worse. 

Given the players who were released and let go, if we didn't take any of these players on, I think you'd be hard pressed to make a case we were any better off. The damage was done before Brady got here, revisionism to try and pin some of it on him when we were rock bottom when he arrived is a bit unfair and detached from reality. We got who was willing to come for a wage and playing time. 

3 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

signing the likes of Magloire just smacked of desperation and I do worry that Brady’s contact list is very limited, add in our ‘scouting’ department

Well that's just it. 

I imagine it went like this: 

Brady wanted to use different defenders, ends up falling on his contact in Magloire and using our links with the Everton staff after the pre-season friendly for emergency loans. 

Onel, Ward, Gray certainly come from the scouting department, which can't have had any more diligence other than a fart on a phone call. Only Onel mildly comes out with some credit. 

Archer - not sure on the connection there for that, whether Brady is responsible for that one or Darnbrough, but he emerges with some credit. I'm sure Luton appreciate he's made some impact at this level during his time here. 

It wasn't a good window but we were the least attractive prospect in the EFL going outside of Sheff Wed, Harrogate and Newport. It should be different gravy in the summer as we are one of the bigger teams in L2. 

What worries me is what extent our recruitment team get involved over the Summer. Certainly in the striking dept, apart from Tolaj, they don't seem to have a clue what a goalscoring centre forward looks like. The players brought  in January, which is a difficult but not impossible window, made very little impact. The reality was we were desperate for players to come in and make an instant impact. I will be renewing my season ticket next week but hope that the heiracy at the Vale , after 2 swift exits from League1, realise they need to have a completely different take on recruitment. Having seriously got it wrong, twice a totally different approach is required.

7 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

I keep saying this but Burton were in the same position last season. Maybe even further adrift and they managed to sign some very good players and stay up. 

The players are out there. But instead we go for has beens, young kids on loan who've never played at this level, or some clown who’s playing in the 36th tier of football and is more injury prone than George Byers. 

It will of course be different in the summer. But I’m not optimistic, I see Brady as someone who will look at has beens or players slightly past their prime and he’s had a complete disregard of good youth players like Shorrock. 

We will see, I think our first signing / extension will be Magloire for another season. 

Brilliant post!

Burton last season were the prime example of what could have been achieved in regards to winning games & the transfer window last January.

That all first important signing (not our out of contract players) is going to set the tone of what we can expect in regards to the type & quality of players we are going to be bringing to the club.

Will be Tolaj / Stockley type of signing or is it going to be a Tom Eaves type 

Edited April 24Apr 24 by Brian Johnson

I think it's best to see what signings we make before passing judgement. Too many are quick to jump the gun based on not much.

Yes, Burton managed last season but they're very much the exception rather than the rule. You can't just point to one example of a team doing it and say that it's proof. Didn't they sign some randomer from Scandinavia who came good for them? They lucked out but many, many other examples of it going the other way. Carlisle two seasons ago spent loads in January for example and still got relegated.

Whatever we think of the signings in January (and I agree they were poor in the main), I don't think anyone can argue that we've been demonstrably better since Brady has come in. And that's with a ragtag bunch of misfits! The wins against Bristol and Sunderland were quite miraculous to be honest! Before Cardiff, we'd achieved 8 points in 4 games, which is promotion form.

He's also had to play without arguably our best player (Byers) , our most experienced striker (Stockley) and one of our best defenders (John) for quite a lot of his tenure. Plus, he's had to play a formation he doesn't like because Moore built a squad to play one way.

This isn't like when Moore came in and actually made us worse before going down.

Just think there's some pre-held agendas that people feel the need to validate.

If we start signing Magliore style players, then I'll hold my hands up. But let's see what we bring in first hey?