12 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

How do you know that they don't take into account the vibe coming from the fans. Don't forget, ask 10 fans the same question and 10 different answers will come back, then what?

Lots of people confuse listening with doing; ie. if you don't do what they are asking, you're not listening. 

14 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

 

I agree, there may be a point about "Not enough Football people" involved in the running of the club/at boardroom level. Hence a few senior people from Vale go and visit a few other clubs who have recently become established in Lge 1 following promotion and see what the boardroom/Football structure make up is and implement similar. I'm sure Wrexham, Stockport, Mansfield would have no problem, there's no secrets.

With respect, we did do this with having a DoF structure. Fans hated it. The problem with those in charge, is knowing / understanding when to make the critical footballing decisions. The theme is they've all come far too late. You can have the best footballing structure in place but as long as the decision making and accountability at the top is rooted in poor decision making, you'll get poor decisions coming out. 

I think a lot of it boils down to Carol's lack of professional distance, she seems to get too involved on a interpersonal level and that ends up affecting the decision making. You see that because when its pre season, she gets involved in fan videos and stuff. 

For all the fans out there who keep asking 'where's Carol' and why does she go missing etc., the best thing she can do is keep far away and let other people take the mantle. 

She's a fan and a supporter but there's nothing to me that suggests that she understands mens football at all.

Just now, NW9Valiant said:

With respect, we did do this with having a DoF structure. Fans hated it.

I don't think it was the structure that was the problem.

Just now, Doha said:

I don't think it was the structure that was the problem.

No, neither do I. There was a not so insignificant part of the fanbase who think a manager can do it all. 

35 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Out of interest, what family on your scale is "In depth" in running a football club.

Under the Shanahans tenure the club have been promoted from Lge 2 twice, admittedly relegated from Lge 1 once and likely twice. The relegation conundrum is what needs to be solved.

If you've had so many years in Corporate finance you should appreciate the need for money flow and solvency.

Naturally- cash is king as they say.

Throw enough money at it and you may just obtain some success. But it’s not just about money is it? 

 

 

35 minutes ago, trentvale said:

Naturally- cash is king as they say.

 

 

 

Not at Vale it isn't, Carol doesn't accept cash as valid currency. 

18 minutes ago, trentvale said:

Naturally- cash is king as they say.

Throw enough money at it and you may just obtain some success. But it’s not just about money is it? 

 

 

Correct, it’s not just about money.  What we can say though is that the club has employed football people to manage the football side of things.  The owners have trusted these people to spend their money wisely and build a competitive squad, and you’d have to say we’ve come up short both times in League 1 with unbalanced squads, low on the required levels of quality.  That’s ultimately on the manager.  The last one was supposedly able to attract better players due to his status within the game, but we haven’t seen that this season.

My own feeling is that if we’d replaced Moore earlier we may be a few points better off but we’d still be in a mess because the players simply aren’t good enough, plus add into the mix the fact that their confidence is shot after such a poor run of results up to the Plymouth game, where most were fairly unanimous in calling for Moore out.

In League Two we seem be able to attracted the right player. After promotion on both occasions we have lacked ruthlessness to bring in the right players and get rid of who we think won’t make the grade at the next level up. 
 

We have now spend a lot of time in League Two. 2008-2013, 2017-2022 and 24/25 season. Either we have  to break the chain and build to stay in League One or just accepts we are now a League Two club. Downsize the stadium for and have something more manageable financial. 
 

Or match the ambition we say we have and go for it. 

4 hours ago, NW9Valiant said:

Lots of people confuse listening with doing; ie. if you don't do what they are asking, you're not listening. 

Unsure what point you're trying to make here NW9 but I would think the leadership team at VP would listen but they don't always have to follow any advice or view given

4 hours ago, NW9Valiant said:

With respect, we did do this with having a DoF structure. Fans hated it. The problem with those in charge, is knowing / understanding when to make the critical footballing decisions. The theme is they've all come far too late. You can have the best footballing structure in place but as long as the decision making and accountability at the top is rooted in poor decision making, you'll get poor decisions coming out.

I'm not suggesting a DoF structure but a fact finding mission to see how other promoted clubs  who've stabilized their Lge 1 status have structured their football side of the operation with a possible view to implement simiar at VP.

4 hours ago, NW9Valiant said:

I think a lot of it boils down to Carol's lack of professional distance, she seems to get too involved on a interpersonal level and that ends up affecting the decision making. You see that because when its pre season, she gets involved in fan videos and stuff.

That's a damming opinion particularly when you don't have a shred of evidence to support it. Being personal may be her style, it doesn't stop anyone making the difficult decisions, ask John Askey, Colin Garlick etc.

4 hours ago, NW9Valiant said:

 

For all the fans out there who keep asking 'where's Carol' and why does she go missing etc., the best thing she can do is keep far away and let other people take the mantle. 

She's a fan and a supporter but there's nothing to me that suggests that she understands mens football at all.

She said after the last relegation that she was gonna be less "Public facing" or words to that effect.

Doesn't two promos during her tenure suggest she understands mens' football enough, admittedly there's one relegation and likely another to come and that's the "Not being able to consolidate in Lge 1" is the problem to be solved. 

You might not be suggesting a DoF structure but nearly all clubs are operating this way now, so it’s likely part of what we get. 

A lot of fan opinion will be what it looks like to them, she is by all accounts very friendly with staff that you can argue isn’t in the best interests of professional decision making. I don’t particularly understand why it’s appropriate for her to take on friendships with players and their wives, attend team training functions etc in pre-season. It’s all very weird.

I might be wrong of course, but wondering why the leadership is poor, is going to be part conjecture without being on the inside. They could be the definition of insanity, not understand men’s football, not learn their lessons or all or none of the above. You can disagree with what someone’s supposition as to why is, but underlining point is it hasn’t been good enough - not just from a fans perspective but business as well. 

11 hours ago, Valiant in Brum said:

In League Two we seem be able to attracted the right player. After promotion on both occasions we have lacked ruthlessness to bring in the right players and get rid of who we think won’t make the grade at the next level up. 
 

We have now spend a lot of time in League Two. 2008-2013, 2017-2022 and 24/25 season. Either we have  to break the chain and build to stay in League One or just accepts we are now a League Two club. Downsize the stadium for and have something more manageable financial. 
 

Or match the ambition we say we have and go for it. 

For my mind we attracted good players when we came back up to EFL1, too.  Sadly, Moore chose to play an awful style of football which has cost us dearly.  Brady has to turn around the 15 Nil events and find a way of a) getting us scoring and b) winning games.

Ill say again - where's Darnbrough? Where's Oakley? What the bloody hell are they doing?

Its all very well blaming Moore but our recruitment seems to have gone down the toilet (or like now, non-existent), since these two got involved. 

I think it’s tough in terms of recruitment. Moore will have had his targets, probably agreed with Darnbrough but then Brady may not want them. The timing of the sacking really was utter madness and had completely screwed us. I see us continuing to trim the squad as I feel the club has given up this season 

21 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I think it’s tough in terms of recruitment. Moore will have had his targets, probably agreed with Darnbrough but then Brady may not want them. The timing of the sacking really was utter madness and had completely screwed us. I see us continuing to trim the squad as I feel the club has given up this season 

Yeah totally agree.

I still think Brady appointment was acknowledgment we are preparing for L2. They just left themselves with no choice after dragging their feet over Moore for best part of 3 months.

You just can’t throw money at it now, literally throwing money away.

The big issue for the club now is we can’t limp along until the end of the season. A losing mindset sticks and is really difficult to change even with a new set of players, plus that negativity is going to be a challenge selling ST’s to fund a promotion push back to L1.

It really is the worst of both worlds and a huge mistake by the club.

What concerns me now is the arrogance of the club, thinking we got promoted at the 1st time of asking and they will do it again. Statistically we were an outlier last season.

I’m sure it’s another strategic relegation and the club wasn’t ready to be competitive in L1.

 

Edited January 19Jan 19 by MBE

22 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I think it’s tough in terms of recruitment. Moore will have had his targets, probably agreed with Darnbrough but then Brady may not want them. The timing of the sacking really was utter madness and had completely screwed us. I see us continuing to trim the squad as I feel the club has given up this season 

If they have given up it be nice tell the die hards they have.

Im sure they havent as didnt watch sat the fact they should have been 3 up at half time according to the person i will listen to the manager says they havent .

The fact they managed turn a good first half performance into a terrible second half one well thats concerning

Cole usually just runs down the tunnel if we have a bad defeat 

Still think its a mentality thing 

Your looking for your big players step up Coles one of them the fact we dont score or respond is the thing what relegates us .

I think Brady if can bring 3/4 in can get us winning .

 

32 minutes ago, Dipepa delight said:

Cole usually just runs down the tunnel if we have a bad defeat 

Cole is a mercenary, he does not care one  jot about the fans he just wants to play and score goals that’s it. He’ll be happily gone I reckon if another L1 club is in for him In the summer. 

He’s constantly having to come out of position and try and do everything himself, seen multiple times he tries to take the ball on like he’s doing it himself. He will be just as frustrated not to get the service.