Balance, from a moaner

[Hoppers]

54 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

Does anyone feel we are underachieving a bit with this squad though? Or is that just me?

No - I think this is part of my apathy this season - I can see that we are on the cusp of being a better team than we are showing on the pitch - or is it my rose tinted glasses 🙈🙈🙈😍😍😍

[Wrex]

10 hours ago, JohnJames said:

I’m waiting eagerly for the day when we have a manager called Knobbs. 

I googled "<ovf censored> football manager Wikipedia" to see if there is one available. Google came up with an interesting related question!

[Birches Head Fred]

Still the worst performing team in league one, albeit after one game this year.

You will of course have noticed (using the "albeit after one game" ) that we actually ended last year as the BEST performing team in league one although I do have to temper that with the fact that Stevenage v Cambridge was postponed so the point could be argued.

[DazFred]

1 hour ago, Wrex said:

I googled "<ovf censored> football manager Wikipedia" to see if there is one available. Google came up with an interesting related question!

There's plenty of knobs in and around where I sit. The type who speaks loud enough for you to hear,expecting you to converse with them. Each seat should have a remote control where you point it at a knob and press the mute button

[DazFred]

12 hours ago, Powerline said:

I recognise that, but it’s the overall trajectory that is the issue. If the 8 in 24 were more mixed together, I’d be happy. The problem is we are on a pretty terrible run and performances are still poor. Who can really see us getting any better?

8 wins in 24 is 1 win in 3. 48 points usually keeps you up so add in a few draws and you're ok.

The Mighty Potters latest recruit was bragging that they are unbeaten in 6. They've won 1 and drawn 5. In fact they've got 10/36 points and won 1 in 12.

[PV1993]

19 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Over the past few days I've sort of u-turned from being incredibly downbeat about PVFC to a little bit more optimistic.

Previously I was very critical of an awful 2023 - the worst performing League 1 club, and 85/92. Undoubtedly unacceptable and very significant improvement is needed very soon. I was disheartened at the sacking of my personal favourite manager, and felt he could steady things if given a bit of time. The football is often pretty dull, and there's been some truly shocking performances. I was disappointed by the appointment of Crosby, the lack of even considering other options, and losing 7-0 on opening day set me on quite a negative view on things - I was almost looking for confirmation of my previous views. I was going into games expecting bad things, almost looking for them.

Having had some time to reflect and do some research, I'm not quite as downbeat as I was. I'm certainly not excited, and I'm not shedding any tears if we sack manager and DoF tomorrow, but these are the reasons why I think there's room for a bit more optimism than is being made out:

• 15th isn't great, but we've only finished above 15th in League 1 twice since 2007. This has been a ceiling for us for nearly 20 years, and we're 3 points from 11th with games in hand, which would be our 3rd best league finish this century. Finishing, say, 14th in League 1 would be one of the best finishes I've ever seen - sad, but true.
• Average league attendances are at record highs. Last season, the league average was 7,681. This season so far, 7,323 (this excludes cup games). The last time we recorded over 7,000 average home attendance was 1998. If you remove the club's Golden Era from 1990-98, the last time we averaged over 7,000 was 1964. We are attracting new fans for the first time in decades.
• Building from this - purely anecdotally, I am seeing more young fans at Vale Park. We missed out on an entire generation from 2008-18. Pretty much everyone my age went to support Stoke. The promotion and Wembley visit seems to have attracted a new group of younger fans, who hopefully will be kept on.
• Vale Park was effectively left to rot for 30 years. Whilst some areas still feel that way (Railway Stand), we're slowly but surely improving what is a traditional and brilliant old football ground. The scoreboard looks great, the Fanzone is a big improvement, and hospitality is befitting of a professional football club. I can order a cup of coffee from my phone, which for me is brilliant - though everyone else seems happy queuing in the rain!
• Carol Shanahan has a few flaws as an owner. She talks in slogans, seems to overly trust a few individuals, and maybe doesn't quite do enough for the average fans' experience in the old stands. However, she is still a huge net positive on the club. The accounts are in good order, according to Kieran Maguire of Football Finance Expert fame. She spent circa £10m in 4 years, including overpaying by £2-3m to avoid us going bump. We didn't even own the ground when she bought us. The club has undoubtedly improved in almost every metric - 20th in League 2 when she arrived, with a gate of 4,431, and 15th in League 1 now, with gates of 7,000+. The academy has gone from being in the bottom 5 for productivity in the country to its most productive in decades - even if its only Lawrie and Mills who make a career of it. She's invested in the ground, and provided more memories in 4 years than I had in 20 years beforehand, including the two best of my life in Swindon and Mansfield. Her intentions are good, in that, whatever we think of her, she wants what is best for PVFC, not herself.
• The academy - although this crop were signed under the old regime, clearly things went wrong in the 16-18 stage and we only saw Smith and Gibbons break into the first team for nearly 20 years - both on account of their grit and battle. In the last year, we've sold two players to top academies for good money, and shown any youngsters choosing their club that their is a viable path to the first-team. This group who are breaking through now made it into the 4th round of the Youth Cup and only narrowly lost to Liverpool 1-0. This should have a knock-on effect down the chain.
• Communications - a contested point, and I was very critical early on in 2023. However, since then, the Supporters Summit gives fans a viable and active outlet to channel frustrations to a senior member of the club in Matt Hancock. The Action Plan gives us a quantifiable overview of where we are (and aren't) in terms of what we want to see improved. Whilst I have doubts about Flitcroft and whether he is the very best person for the DoF role, he spoke twice in the summer, once in September, gave an in-depth interview in December, and will probably speak again in January. I don't want him to speak every week - partly as he does my head in, and partly as you end up over-communicating; once every 6 weeks is about right. Carol has been quiet for 18 months, only really speaking out in April with a really detailed explanation as to where we were, and where we were going - it isn't perfect, but its more transparency than most owners would provide. Comms is better, not perfect
• Recruitment - again, contested. Flitcroft has had some absolute stinkers, and considering our use of data services, analysts, and recruitment teams, it is hard to defend Ryan Loft, Liam McCarron, Joel Cooper et al. However, if we believe his line about 'lacking time after the playoffs' in 2022, he's had two pretty good summers in 2021 and 2023 - Wilson, Proctor, Garrity, in the first, Chislett, Arblaster, Ripley in the 2nd (with loads more decent signings I haven't mentioned). We have turned profits on the likes of Johnson, Forrester, and Rodney. Striker is an major issue, but looking at clubs in the middle of League 1, most are struggling in that area (bar Charlton with Alfie May, no one below 9th has a player with more goals than Garrity's 9). Our treatment and development of Arblaster and Devine will hopefully stand us in better stead with the Category 1 academies, so we see less of McCarron and Odubeko and more Blasters. Debrah looks a really clever signing. Ben Garrity will go down as one of the best signings since 2000 - a proper throwback to Rudgey's rough diamonds.

There's of course a load to be worried about. I'm nowhere near convinced by Crosby and there's every chance he's gone within weeks. If I had a bet, I think we'll finish 14th in pretty boring fashion. After shattering the club-record for games by New Year, and rarely having a run of free midweeks, we've now got 4 winnable games in 5 with no midweek games. Crosby has a real chance to put some points on the board, and extend a respectable run from December onwards into something more consistent and sustainable. Flitcroft needs to have a much, much better January than last year, even if there's little financial room to work with.

If you drew a line graph of PVFC from 2019-present, the line is inexorably, though gradually, going upwards, with a few dips along the way. The line of best fit, if my GCSE Maths isn't failing me, would be going up. There's loads of work to do and it's our duty as fans to both support the club and demand improvement, to safeguard it as generations before us have done. Blind optimism can do more damage to the club than moaning - if we'd all done that under Smurthwaite, he'd have taken us to the very brink. Carol isn't infallible, and we've been here longer and will be here a lot longer. Sometimes we have to point things out and suggest they get fixed. 

Despite this, I do think we're in a better place than I (and a lot of others) feel like we are. Sometimes, treading water can feel like regression after a pretty rapid rise. We're not used to a boring season. We might have to get used to it.

More than anything, I'm trying to go into games a little bit more optimistically, as expecting things to go wrong is nowhere near as fun. UTV

Pretty much agree entirely with this. Came on to post something similar so I’m glad you have. Just wanted to add in a couple of points.

1. Injuries. Injuries have plagued us this year with a lot of our first team being out for lengthy spells. At the beginning of the season when everyone was fit we were playing the best football I have seen a vale team play. On the Ale and Vale podcast they said think back to when we were doing well and it was still boring - I don’t agree. It was actually nice to feel in control of games, and we were creating lots with good play. The amount of games and injuries put paid to that. If I were to pick an 11 with everyone available it would be:

Ripley

Debrah - picked up a bad injury recently, unlucky.

Smith

Jones - injured for most, although you could argue whoever decided to give him a 2 year contract was at fault for this one.

Clarke - injured all season, not injury prone though - really unlucky with here. Sang now injured too as back up - again, unlucky. 

Ojo - out until at least Feb Crosby says.

Arblaster - did so well that he was recalled. Also injured. Replacement in Devine hopefully okay after Carlisle.

Grant - injury prone so falls into the same category as DJ. However there’s not enough competition here, so we all know it’s a priority area for Jan.

Garrity - been carrying a calf injury for a while and played through (presumably due to the high amount of injuries we have already). Hope he’s not out for a while.

Chislett

Wilson - proved that when he has played we have been good. He is the missing piece. Yes he is injury prone but our system needs him. There must be a young lad in the England set up who can come on loan and play second fiddle to James, because he will 100% get game time in every match.

The fact we have played a million games hasn’t helped this at all. Hopefully this will calm down now and we can get people back fit.

 

2. The other point I wanted to mention was the reaction at the end of the game against Carlisle, and some perspective on this. In the Ale and Vale pod (which I love btw) they reported lots of pissed off fans and a bad reaction. Not the case. There was them at the back booing loudly plus a few others (minus Steve who was behind me, thanks for taking a picture for me and the missus btw!). Some people had had enough and left early. The rest stayed and clapped.
 

I can appreciate that we are nowhere near fills strength right now. If we were and playing like this I would be very worried. That’s why Cheltenham were so <ovf censored> at the start of the season. I do think our situation - amount of games and injuries - makes it a bit different.

 

I want it to be known that I am on the fence about Crosby. Not a happy clapper, nor a Crosby out man. He doesn’t help himself as much as some things can’t be helped.

[Iron Curtain]

19 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Over the past few days I've sort of u-turned from being incredibly downbeat about PVFC to a little bit more optimistic.

Previously I was very critical of an awful 2023 - the worst performing League 1 club, and 85/92. Undoubtedly unacceptable and very significant improvement is needed very soon. I was disheartened at the sacking of my personal favourite manager, and felt he could steady things if given a bit of time. The football is often pretty dull, and there's been some truly shocking performances. I was disappointed by the appointment of Crosby, the lack of even considering other options, and losing 7-0 on opening day set me on quite a negative view on things - I was almost looking for confirmation of my previous views. I was going into games expecting bad things, almost looking for them.

Having had some time to reflect and do some research, I'm not quite as downbeat as I was. I'm certainly not excited, and I'm not shedding any tears if we sack manager and DoF tomorrow, but these are the reasons why I think there's room for a bit more optimism than is being made out:

• 15th isn't great, but we've only finished above 15th in League 1 twice since 2007. This has been a ceiling for us for nearly 20 years, and we're 3 points from 11th with games in hand, which would be our 3rd best league finish this century. Finishing, say, 14th in League 1 would be one of the best finishes I've ever seen - sad, but true.
• Average league attendances are at record highs. Last season, the league average was 7,681. This season so far, 7,323 (this excludes cup games). The last time we recorded over 7,000 average home attendance was 1998. If you remove the club's Golden Era from 1990-98, the last time we averaged over 7,000 was 1964. We are attracting new fans for the first time in decades.
• Building from this - purely anecdotally, I am seeing more young fans at Vale Park. We missed out on an entire generation from 2008-18. Pretty much everyone my age went to support Stoke. The promotion and Wembley visit seems to have attracted a new group of younger fans, who hopefully will be kept on.
• Vale Park was effectively left to rot for 30 years. Whilst some areas still feel that way (Railway Stand), we're slowly but surely improving what is a traditional and brilliant old football ground. The scoreboard looks great, the Fanzone is a big improvement, and hospitality is befitting of a professional football club. I can order a cup of coffee from my phone, which for me is brilliant - though everyone else seems happy queuing in the rain!
• Carol Shanahan has a few flaws as an owner. She talks in slogans, seems to overly trust a few individuals, and maybe doesn't quite do enough for the average fans' experience in the old stands. However, she is still a huge net positive on the club. The accounts are in good order, according to Kieran Maguire of Football Finance Expert fame. She spent circa £10m in 4 years, including overpaying by £2-3m to avoid us going bump. We didn't even own the ground when she bought us. The club has undoubtedly improved in almost every metric - 20th in League 2 when she arrived, with a gate of 4,431, and 15th in League 1 now, with gates of 7,000+. The academy has gone from being in the bottom 5 for productivity in the country to its most productive in decades - even if its only Lawrie and Mills who make a career of it. She's invested in the ground, and provided more memories in 4 years than I had in 20 years beforehand, including the two best of my life in Swindon and Mansfield. Her intentions are good, in that, whatever we think of her, she wants what is best for PVFC, not herself.
• The academy - although this crop were signed under the old regime, clearly things went wrong in the 16-18 stage and we only saw Smith and Gibbons break into the first team for nearly 20 years - both on account of their grit and battle. In the last year, we've sold two players to top academies for good money, and shown any youngsters choosing their club that their is a viable path to the first-team. This group who are breaking through now made it into the 4th round of the Youth Cup and only narrowly lost to Liverpool 1-0. This should have a knock-on effect down the chain.
• Communications - a contested point, and I was very critical early on in 2023. However, since then, the Supporters Summit gives fans a viable and active outlet to channel frustrations to a senior member of the club in Matt Hancock. The Action Plan gives us a quantifiable overview of where we are (and aren't) in terms of what we want to see improved. Whilst I have doubts about Flitcroft and whether he is the very best person for the DoF role, he spoke twice in the summer, once in September, gave an in-depth interview in December, and will probably speak again in January. I don't want him to speak every week - partly as he does my head in, and partly as you end up over-communicating; once every 6 weeks is about right. Carol has been quiet for 18 months, only really speaking out in April with a really detailed explanation as to where we were, and where we were going - it isn't perfect, but its more transparency than most owners would provide. Comms is better, not perfect
• Recruitment - again, contested. Flitcroft has had some absolute stinkers, and considering our use of data services, analysts, and recruitment teams, it is hard to defend Ryan Loft, Liam McCarron, Joel Cooper et al. However, if we believe his line about 'lacking time after the playoffs' in 2022, he's had two pretty good summers in 2021 and 2023 - Wilson, Proctor, Garrity, in the first, Chislett, Arblaster, Ripley in the 2nd (with loads more decent signings I haven't mentioned). We have turned profits on the likes of Johnson, Forrester, and Rodney. Striker is an major issue, but looking at clubs in the middle of League 1, most are struggling in that area (bar Charlton with Alfie May, no one below 9th has a player with more goals than Garrity's 9). Our treatment and development of Arblaster and Devine will hopefully stand us in better stead with the Category 1 academies, so we see less of McCarron and Odubeko and more Blasters. Debrah looks a really clever signing. Ben Garrity will go down as one of the best signings since 2000 - a proper throwback to Rudgey's rough diamonds.

There's of course a load to be worried about. I'm nowhere near convinced by Crosby and there's every chance he's gone within weeks. If I had a bet, I think we'll finish 14th in pretty boring fashion. After shattering the club-record for games by New Year, and rarely having a run of free midweeks, we've now got 4 winnable games in 5 with no midweek games. Crosby has a real chance to put some points on the board, and extend a respectable run from December onwards into something more consistent and sustainable. Flitcroft needs to have a much, much better January than last year, even if there's little financial room to work with.

If you drew a line graph of PVFC from 2019-present, the line is inexorably, though gradually, going upwards, with a few dips along the way. The line of best fit, if my GCSE Maths isn't failing me, would be going up. There's loads of work to do and it's our duty as fans to both support the club and demand improvement, to safeguard it as generations before us have done. Blind optimism can do more damage to the club than moaning - if we'd all done that under Smurthwaite, he'd have taken us to the very brink. Carol isn't infallible, and we've been here longer and will be here a lot longer. Sometimes we have to point things out and suggest they get fixed. 

Despite this, I do think we're in a better place than I (and a lot of others) feel like we are. Sometimes, treading water can feel like regression after a pretty rapid rise. We're not used to a boring season. We might have to get used to it.

More than anything, I'm trying to go into games a little bit more optimistically, as expecting things to go wrong is nowhere near as fun. UTV

Decent post that.

My emotions are all over the place at the vale at the moment… the long term trajectory “line of best fit” piece is one I totally agree with.

 

[JoeB2]

5 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Decent post that.

My emotions are all over the place at the vale at the moment… the long term trajectory “line of best fit” piece is one I totally agree with.

 

Put a massive dip at the start for Barnsley and I reckon this is our season.

[ClntonBoulton]

13 hours ago, JohnJames said:

I’m waiting eagerly for the day when we have a manager called Knobbs. 

Or Alcocks.....

[Bede]

19 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Over the past few days I've sort of u-turned from being incredibly downbeat about PVFC to a little bit more optimistic.

Previously I was very critical of an awful 2023 - the worst performing League 1 club, and 85/92. Undoubtedly unacceptable and very significant improvement is needed very soon. I was disheartened at the sacking of my personal favourite manager, and felt he could steady things if given a bit of time. The football is often pretty dull, and there's been some truly shocking performances. I was disappointed by the appointment of Crosby, the lack of even considering other options, and losing 7-0 on opening day set me on quite a negative view on things - I was almost looking for confirmation of my previous views. I was going into games expecting bad things, almost looking for them.

Having had some time to reflect and do some research, I'm not quite as downbeat as I was. I'm certainly not excited, and I'm not shedding any tears if we sack manager and DoF tomorrow, but these are the reasons why I think there's room for a bit more optimism than is being made out:

• 15th isn't great, but we've only finished above 15th in League 1 twice since 2007. This has been a ceiling for us for nearly 20 years, and we're 3 points from 11th with games in hand, which would be our 3rd best league finish this century. Finishing, say, 14th in League 1 would be one of the best finishes I've ever seen - sad, but true.
• Average league attendances are at record highs. Last season, the league average was 7,681. This season so far, 7,323 (this excludes cup games). The last time we recorded over 7,000 average home attendance was 1998. If you remove the club's Golden Era from 1990-98, the last time we averaged over 7,000 was 1964. We are attracting new fans for the first time in decades.
• Building from this - purely anecdotally, I am seeing more young fans at Vale Park. We missed out on an entire generation from 2008-18. Pretty much everyone my age went to support Stoke. The promotion and Wembley visit seems to have attracted a new group of younger fans, who hopefully will be kept on.
• Vale Park was effectively left to rot for 30 years. Whilst some areas still feel that way (Railway Stand), we're slowly but surely improving what is a traditional and brilliant old football ground. The scoreboard looks great, the Fanzone is a big improvement, and hospitality is befitting of a professional football club. I can order a cup of coffee from my phone, which for me is brilliant - though everyone else seems happy queuing in the rain!
• Carol Shanahan has a few flaws as an owner. She talks in slogans, seems to overly trust a few individuals, and maybe doesn't quite do enough for the average fans' experience in the old stands. However, she is still a huge net positive on the club. The accounts are in good order, according to Kieran Maguire of Football Finance Expert fame. She spent circa £10m in 4 years, including overpaying by £2-3m to avoid us going bump. We didn't even own the ground when she bought us. The club has undoubtedly improved in almost every metric - 20th in League 2 when she arrived, with a gate of 4,431, and 15th in League 1 now, with gates of 7,000+. The academy has gone from being in the bottom 5 for productivity in the country to its most productive in decades - even if its only Lawrie and Mills who make a career of it. She's invested in the ground, and provided more memories in 4 years than I had in 20 years beforehand, including the two best of my life in Swindon and Mansfield. Her intentions are good, in that, whatever we think of her, she wants what is best for PVFC, not herself.
• The academy - although this crop were signed under the old regime, clearly things went wrong in the 16-18 stage and we only saw Smith and Gibbons break into the first team for nearly 20 years - both on account of their grit and battle. In the last year, we've sold two players to top academies for good money, and shown any youngsters choosing their club that their is a viable path to the first-team. This group who are breaking through now made it into the 4th round of the Youth Cup and only narrowly lost to Liverpool 1-0. This should have a knock-on effect down the chain.
• Communications - a contested point, and I was very critical early on in 2023. However, since then, the Supporters Summit gives fans a viable and active outlet to channel frustrations to a senior member of the club in Matt Hancock. The Action Plan gives us a quantifiable overview of where we are (and aren't) in terms of what we want to see improved. Whilst I have doubts about Flitcroft and whether he is the very best person for the DoF role, he spoke twice in the summer, once in September, gave an in-depth interview in December, and will probably speak again in January. I don't want him to speak every week - partly as he does my head in, and partly as you end up over-communicating; once every 6 weeks is about right. Carol has been quiet for 18 months, only really speaking out in April with a really detailed explanation as to where we were, and where we were going - it isn't perfect, but its more transparency than most owners would provide. Comms is better, not perfect
• Recruitment - again, contested. Flitcroft has had some absolute stinkers, and considering our use of data services, analysts, and recruitment teams, it is hard to defend Ryan Loft, Liam McCarron, Joel Cooper et al. However, if we believe his line about 'lacking time after the playoffs' in 2022, he's had two pretty good summers in 2021 and 2023 - Wilson, Proctor, Garrity, in the first, Chislett, Arblaster, Ripley in the 2nd (with loads more decent signings I haven't mentioned). We have turned profits on the likes of Johnson, Forrester, and Rodney. Striker is an major issue, but looking at clubs in the middle of League 1, most are struggling in that area (bar Charlton with Alfie May, no one below 9th has a player with more goals than Garrity's 9). Our treatment and development of Arblaster and Devine will hopefully stand us in better stead with the Category 1 academies, so we see less of McCarron and Odubeko and more Blasters. Debrah looks a really clever signing. Ben Garrity will go down as one of the best signings since 2000 - a proper throwback to Rudgey's rough diamonds.

There's of course a load to be worried about. I'm nowhere near convinced by Crosby and there's every chance he's gone within weeks. If I had a bet, I think we'll finish 14th in pretty boring fashion. After shattering the club-record for games by New Year, and rarely having a run of free midweeks, we've now got 4 winnable games in 5 with no midweek games. Crosby has a real chance to put some points on the board, and extend a respectable run from December onwards into something more consistent and sustainable. Flitcroft needs to have a much, much better January than last year, even if there's little financial room to work with.

If you drew a line graph of PVFC from 2019-present, the line is inexorably, though gradually, going upwards, with a few dips along the way. The line of best fit, if my GCSE Maths isn't failing me, would be going up. There's loads of work to do and it's our duty as fans to both support the club and demand improvement, to safeguard it as generations before us have done. Blind optimism can do more damage to the club than moaning - if we'd all done that under Smurthwaite, he'd have taken us to the very brink. Carol isn't infallible, and we've been here longer and will be here a lot longer. Sometimes we have to point things out and suggest they get fixed. 

Despite this, I do think we're in a better place than I (and a lot of others) feel like we are. Sometimes, treading water can feel like regression after a pretty rapid rise. We're not used to a boring season. We might have to get used to it.

More than anything, I'm trying to go into games a little bit more optimistically, as expecting things to go wrong is nowhere near as fun. UTV

Great post once again Joe.  If I'd got more time I'd counter a few of your points but just a couple of thoughts:

1 - you say you're more satisfied with communication, yet felt compelled to write such a detailed summary.  Don't you think better communication during such a bad spell would have alleviated the calls for Crosby and Flitcroft and instill a little calm amongst a growingly disillusioned fanbase?  I've seen first hand fans fighting amongst themselves in recent weeks, such is the intensity and emotion of our current plight.  Fans are turning.  If ever there were a time for a club meeting with the fans, surely now would be it? The lack of leadership is astonishing, yet sadly totally expected by now.  Like it or not, Port Vale is a Football Club; a public heritage brand whose main customers have an incredibly vested interest in its performance.  You cannot treat it as a privately owned family business.  Yet they continue to do so.

2 - Supporters' Summit - I and many others were against this from the start.  From day 1 the club have pulled up the drawbridge of communications with fans.  They have systematically failed to properly engage with a healthy Supporters' Club - often organising things to conflict with SC initiatives, excluding them from supporter / club traditionally joint ventures such as player of the year, meet the manager events, Rememberance services etc.  They only engage in things they have complete control over.  They have cleared absolutely everybody out of the club that was BC.  Some clearing was inevitable and needed, but it went way too far and lots of bad blood has been created amongst people that went over and above during the club's hour of need on many occasions, but just got unceremoniously cast aside with no regard. 

Matt Hancock is an outright liar.  They have shafted the fans over the loyalty scheme because they got rumbled over the out-of-control backhanding of tickets amongst corporate.  Since they had to reign it in, corporate have bit back and so now they have withdrawn our previous points from last season in order to re-set it in favour of corporate, who were at a dodgy advantage in the first place - they were recently handed 50 points more than everybody else, I believe?  I called Matt out on this direct and he still tries to flip-flop out of it, despite me hammering  him with various pieces of evidence, which he could not defend.  I have an interesting meeting with him next week, and he'll be getting hammered once again.  I will not tolerate the club lying to the fans.  The Supporters' Summit is a total sham mate. We've just changed the Supporters' Club to a Supporters' Trust for this kind of thing.  Governed by the FSA, run open and democratically to represent fans.  The SS (LOL) represents nobody.   Let's have open debate.  The club as a whole take the fanbase for mugs.

3 - We're all fur coat and no knickers - image over substance.  Why did we spend 1.2 million to hold the Robbie gig?  We put seats into a stand we cannot use for a one-off gig, meanwhile we have capacity restrictions in place in 2 stands because the facilities are so bad.  That is totally inexcusible.  Imagine how far £1.2 million could have gone in fan areas.  The manner in which the regular fan in the stand has been ignored and neglected is abhorrent. They created a totally unneccessary furore over the switch from Bycars to Hamil, because again, they don't consider the fans.  (I agree with the move - but it was handled apallingly).  But we can't afford the going rate for strikers.  If only we were a football club first and foremost.

There is a lot of repair required between the fanbase and club right now.  You know things are bad when folk like Dicko throw in the towel.  You know all too well how it goes when fans lose support, and so does Carol; we're slowly slumping back to that and those impressive attendance figures are starting to dilute.  And they only have themselves to blame.  It takes years to build confidence, but only a season to shatter.  It's so easy for us as fans to resort back to 'typical Vale' when our hopes are built up and once again dashed, as they so frequently are.  They don't sometimes deserve the support they get, in my opinion.  

The current stats you display of our rise cannot also be taken without the context against such a low bar of comparison of the last 20 years, when we have been ran by outright conmen.  To rise above those levels aren't much to write home about.  However, it is important to acknowledge that we are probably at our nautral level right now, if you take historical standings into consideration.  I certainly aren't expecting to be flirting with Championship at the moment - we're light years away from holding our own there.  It's absolutely no use having 'Championship Ready' corporate facilities to watch league 2 football.

Despite those negative points above, I appreciate and agree with plenty of your posts - I respect yours and your dad's views highly.

I'm not Crosby out, yet.  And I'm certainly not Carol out - her intentions are not of the same ilk as the three previous incumbents.  But I'm not happy either.  I find myself saying this all to frequently: I expected so much better from this current regime.  Without the fans, this club is nothing.  A sentiment that the Shanahans have never quite grasped.

I'm interested to see what happens in the coming months.  Ian Donaldson has reared his head again on Twitter and Synectics has undergone a restructure.  Is change afoot?

[Warren]

4 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Possibly.

I do agree we need to be more direct at times.

Alan Hansen once said (About Liverpool when they were great) “ as soon as we got possession in defence we would look up straight away to see if there was a long ball on for Rush or Dalglish, and if not we would keep possession “.

Be good if we had pace up front where we could have the same philosophy.

I've seen two really great players live in my life time. Lionel Messi and Kenny Dalglish. That's how good Kenny Dalglish was. Rush was actually quite a limited player but very good at running and extremely good at finishing. I'm doing him down a bit I guess. Of course the Liverpool team they played in was a great side in its own right. 

So what I'm saying is if you give the ball to Dalglish and especially Messi they didn't lose it. Even under pressure. But we haven't got anyone that good. If we launch the ball to say Garrity or Chislett they will get tackled and it'll keep coming back. 

Chislett has some Messi qualities. But he has only about 60% of the strength of Messi. He needs to gain that without putting weight on. 

[Birches Head Fred]

I've seen two really great players live in my life time. Lionel Messi and Kenny Dalglish. That's how good Kenny Dalglish was. Rush was actually quite a limited player but very good at running and extremely good at finishing. I'm doing him down a bit I guess. Of course the Liverpool team they played in was a great side in its own right. 
So what I'm saying is if you give the ball to Dalglish and especially Messi they didn't lose it. Even under pressure. But we haven't got anyone that good. If we launch the ball to say Garrity or Chislett they will get tackled and it'll keep coming back. 
Chislett has some Messi qualities. But he has only about 60% of the strength of Messi. He needs to gain that without putting weight on. 

Jesus Warren we're Port Vale, a third division club - for goodness sakes let's have some realism.

[Valiiant]

 

While the OP made some good and fair points, the original post smacks of someone who for whatever reason is just desperate to appease the happy clapper club here which lets be honest, seems to be the majority of the forum. Crosby could set fire to their houses and get charged for Arson and they would still find ways to defend him.

The results have become frequently more poor after a positive start to the season. Performances are almost laughably bad at times. The manager keeps putting out the same formation and employing the same tactics week after week, regardless of what personal is missing. His substitution making in games is often mind boggling. It's all through no lack of effort on his part. But if someone doesn't have the ability to take a club forward then what's the point in thinking about him in any long term sense? Give him the rest of the season and then thank him for giving it a good go and get somebody with fresh ideas in.

[JoeB2]

3 hours ago, Bede said:

Great post once again Joe.  If I'd got more time I'd counter a few of your points but just a couple of thoughts:

1 - you say you're more satisfied with communication, yet felt compelled to write such a detailed summary.  Don't you think better communication during such a bad spell would have alleviated the calls for Crosby and Flitcroft and instill a little calm amongst a growingly disillusioned fanbase?  I've seen first hand fans fighting amongst themselves in recent weeks, such is the intensity and emotion of our current plight.  Fans are turning.  If ever there were a time for a club meeting with the fans, surely now would be it? The lack of leadership is astonishing, yet sadly totally expected by now.  Like it or not, Port Vale is a Football Club; a public heritage brand whose main customers have an incredibly vested interest in its performance.  You cannot treat it as a privately owned family business.  Yet they continue to do so.

2 - Supporters' Summit - I and many others were against this from the start.  From day 1 the club have pulled up the drawbridge of communications with fans.  They have systematically failed to properly engage with a healthy Supporters' Club - often organising things to conflict with SC initiatives, excluding them from supporter / club traditionally joint ventures such as player of the year, meet the manager events, Rememberance services etc.  They only engage in things they have complete control over.  They have cleared absolutely everybody out of the club that was BC.  Some clearing was inevitable and needed, but it went way too far and lots of bad blood has been created amongst people that went over and above during the club's hour of need on many occasions, but just got unceremoniously cast aside with no regard. 

Matt Hancock is an outright liar.  They have shafted the fans over the loyalty scheme because they got rumbled over the out-of-control backhanding of tickets amongst corporate.  Since they had to reign it in, corporate have bit back and so now they have withdrawn our previous points from last season in order to re-set it in favour of corporate, who were at a dodgy advantage in the first place - they were recently handed 50 points more than everybody else, I believe?  I called Matt out on this direct and he still tries to flip-flop out of it, despite me hammering  him with various pieces of evidence, which he could not defend.  I have an interesting meeting with him next week, and he'll be getting hammered once again.  I will not tolerate the club lying to the fans.  The Supporters' Summit is a total sham mate. We've just changed the Supporters' Club to a Supporters' Trust for this kind of thing.  Governed by the FSA, run open and democratically to represent fans.  The SS (LOL) represents nobody.   Let's have open debate.  The club as a whole take the fanbase for mugs.

3 - We're all fur coat and no knickers - image over substance.  Why did we spend 1.2 million to hold the Robbie gig?  We put seats into a stand we cannot use for a one-off gig, meanwhile we have capacity restrictions in place in 2 stands because the facilities are so bad.  That is totally inexcusible.  Imagine how far £1.2 million could have gone in fan areas.  The manner in which the regular fan in the stand has been ignored and neglected is abhorrent. They created a totally unneccessary furore over the switch from Bycars to Hamil, because again, they don't consider the fans.  (I agree with the move - but it was handled apallingly).  But we can't afford the going rate for strikers.  If only we were a football club first and foremost.

There is a lot of repair required between the fanbase and club right now.  You know things are bad when folk like Dicko throw in the towel.  You know all too well how it goes when fans lose support, and so does Carol; we're slowly slumping back to that and those impressive attendance figures are starting to dilute.  And they only have themselves to blame.  It takes years to build confidence, but only a season to shatter.  It's so easy for us as fans to resort back to 'typical Vale' when our hopes are built up and once again dashed, as they so frequently are.  They don't sometimes deserve the support they get, in my opinion.  

The current stats you display of our rise cannot also be taken without the context against such a low bar of comparison of the last 20 years, when we have been ran by outright conmen.  To rise above those levels aren't much to write home about.  However, it is important to acknowledge that we are probably at our nautral level right now, if you take historical standings into consideration.  I certainly aren't expecting to be flirting with Championship at the moment - we're light years away from holding our own there.  It's absolutely no use having 'Championship Ready' corporate facilities to watch league 2 football.

Despite those negative points above, I appreciate and agree with plenty of your posts - I respect yours and your dad's views highly.

I'm not Crosby out, yet.  And I'm certainly not Carol out - her intentions are not of the same ilk as the three previous incumbents.  But I'm not happy either.  I find myself saying this all to frequently: I expected so much better from this current regime.  Without the fans, this club is nothing.  A sentiment that the Shanahans have never quite grasped.

I'm interested to see what happens in the coming months.  Ian Donaldson has reared his head again on Twitter and Synectics has undergone a restructure.  Is change afoot?

My Dad and I disagree on this - he's far closer to your view.

Addressing your point in turn:

1. I don't think anything would alleviate calls for Crosby and Flitcroft to go bar winning games regularly. They could knock on every fans' door and have a 1 on 1 chat, and it wouldn't make a jot of difference. Both Flitcroft and Crosby have appeared, for 2 hours each, on a fans-run podcast where anything could be asked (Crosby 6 weeks ago) - I'm unsure how much more transparent they can be. I've not had an issue with communication since the summer, after perhaps being the most critical at the start of the year. I don't think a fans meeting to discuss the future of the manager would do anyone good. Folk would turn up wanting to hear he's being sacked. He won't be. 

2. I don't really know Matt so can't comment on him personally, and aren't privy to any of the other things either. There is an area we agree on - I've long called for a better relationship with the SC. Whatever the reasons for its existence, I've been impressed with the Summit and its level of organisation. Whether it delivers is a different question.

3. In terms of the 'knickers', a rise of 25 places and 3,000 extra on the gate, combined with Swindon + Wembley and a better academy than ever is enough substance for me. You are right that the bar was low due to the predecessors, but that only made the challenge harder. A fanbase of 4,000 in a decaying stadium with zero scouting, sports science, or productive academy output. The bar for success was low but hitting that low bar wasn't easy as the club had been neglected. The only asset they had was a loyal core of fans. There is a fair bit of 'image' stuff, but progress is happening and, in my view, it's been a fairly decent amount of it within 5 years considering seasons 1 and 2 were derailed due to COVID. I didn't know Robbie cost £1.2m, but the seats were in the Lorne Street before Robbie - it was done during lockdown (will put a link in at the end). In my original post I identified a problem as the regular fan experience, which right now basically means the Railway Stand. There has to be money thrown at it in the next 1-2 years, but if you asked me whether I wanted £70k to be spent on the Paddock bogs or a forward, I'd go the latter.

I just genuinely think we've had a poor 2023 for a number of reasons and that's feeding into greater complaints about wider stuff which, in my view, is being exaggerated. If we win a few of our next games, I imagine these complaints will go quiet. Folk (not you) fundamentally want Crosby sacked, it isn't happening, so they're kicking off at the club, often in frustration. I've been there myself. The main point of contention is a lot of the fans want the manager sacked and the club doesn't want to do so.

I too sometimes think I expected a bit more when we fought for change in 2019, but I also wonder what my expectations were when we were meeting up every week at the Riflemen to plan Norman's departure. If you'd offered me a win at Wembley, mid-table League 1 football, a club that does do genuinely good community work, and 7,000+ fans by 2024, I think I'd have taken it. 

The club does have work to do, undoubtedly. Carol makes mistakes, and I've always banged on that it is our responsibility to keep things honest in the boardroom. Genuinely, right now, I just think we need to win a few more games of football and finish 12th. Some money needs to be put into the Railway. There needs to major improvements with their relationship with the SC. We need to keep trending upwards, which is where I feel we're going.

Lorne Street seats: 

Lorne Street stand update | News | Port Vale

WWW.PORT-VALE.CO.UK

 

 

[JoeB2]

2 minutes ago, Valiiant said:

While the OP made some good and fair points, the original post smacks of someone who for whatever reason is just desperate to appease the happy clapper club here

I've spent most of the last few years falling out with most of them - genuinely nothing has ever mattered to me less. Just my honest view.