Cricket - the Ashes 2023

[hamilboy]

12 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Is it wrong of me to hope that Lyon's injury is quite serious?!!

Very much hope it is a Wilson injury.

[valiant_593]

On 20/06/2023 at 23:05, manc_vale said:

OK, we lost. OK, we might not have lost had we not declared in the first day, but we did cos we attacked. We attacked the entire 5 days and I loved it. Australia were on the back foot from the first ball of the match. 

Even though we lost, but we have given them a bloody nose and plenty of food for thought. We have a tactic that is winning plaudits, should Cummins lose the next test after playing as they did in this test I expect the pressure and the noise to really ramp up against the Aussies. 

Looking forward to the nect installment next week where hopefully the groundsman curates a wicket that has more life in it. The Edgbaston wicket was a poor showing for a supposedly top tier cricket venue. 

 

 

I’m of a different view with ‘Bazball’ to be honest. Yes it’s entertaining, but so are all ashes series, the aggression shown by the openers has been fantastic but then complete and utter stupidity comes in (or ego) and throws away strong positions. We would have won if we didn’t declare and I don’t buy this it feels like a win / we just want to entertain. I’d much prefer us to play traditional and win than lose. Win at all costs otherwise I really don’t see the point. 

[darren1810]

34 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I’m finding it very frustrating to watch. On top in 1st test and throw it away with a stupid declaration and some stupid shots. Here 180-1 ausies on the ropes, why not knock it around for half hour? See off the short bowling then go back to hitting the full pitch stuff. Crazy barring that half hour and to see Brook do the same after 3 quick wickets to it was unbelievable. When in strong positions we really need to push them home. No idea why Root is batting like that either, the others their attack is better than defence so makes some sense, but root is top class and  shouldn’t be batting like that. It a decent place with the Lyon injury but I just hope we bat normally get a lead and bowl with a bit more aggression 

The Brook swipe and then laughing about it was really odd. Maybe a nervous laugh like McKirdy after his penno miss 😅. 

We've definitely given them a lifeline with that half an hour of madness. Critical morning coming up. Need a 100 lead but can easily be a 60 to 80 deficit. 

 

[Jacko51]

2 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

I’m of a different view with ‘Bazball’ to be honest. Yes it’s entertaining, but so are all ashes series, the aggression shown by the openers has been fantastic but then complete and utter stupidity comes in (or ego) and throws away strong positions. We would have won if we didn’t declare and I don’t buy this it feels like a win / we just want to entertain. I’d much prefer us to play traditional and win than lose. Win at all costs otherwise I really don’t see the point. 

The declaration wasn’t why we lost - it was the incompetent wicket-keeping. 

[valiant_593]

12 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

The declaration wasn’t why we lost - it was the incompetent wicket-keeping. 

I still don’t think we should have declared with Root on 100+ not out on day 1 and not even 400 scored. If we go on to make 450 there even with Bairstows awful keeping we win. Think bowl were huge factors, definitely a game we should have won 

[Warren]

30 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I still don’t think we should have declared with Root on 100+ not out on day 1 and not even 400 scored. If we go on to make 450 there even with Bairstows awful keeping we win. Think bowl were huge factors, definitely a game we should have won 

I'm not sure Stokes worked out that you win by way of summing the scores from two innings and comparing them. So, guess what, if your best batsman is at the wicket on a good pitch with two wickets remaining, the overall total will be higher and perhaps much higher if you let him bat. 

I see this as a bit like England subbing off Harry Kane when they need a goal. This wasn't dumb, it was stupendously dumb. All credibility gone, I'm not bothering to watch any more. 

[ValeGez]

44 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

The declaration wasn’t why we lost - it was the incompetent wicket-keeping. 

Agree, plus the total giveaway of wickets in our second innings .

[valiant_593]

Same old rubbish this morning. Taking on the short ball over and over again. Throwing the game away 

[Jacko51]

1 hour ago, Warren said:

I'm not sure Stokes worked out that you win by way of summing the scores from two innings and comparing them. So, guess what, if your best batsman is at the wicket on a good pitch with two wickets remaining, the overall total will be higher and perhaps much higher if you let him bat. 

I see this as a bit like England subbing off Harry Kane when they need a goal. This wasn't dumb, it was stupendously dumb. All credibility gone, I'm not bothering to watch any more. 

Do you think Stokes was aware at the time that Johnny Bairstow was going to have an absolute mare behind the stumps and cost us about 200 runs?

[Jacko51]

Interesting stuff this morning.  I thought the Aussies didn't like body line??

[robf]

7 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Interesting stuff this morning.  I thought the Aussies didn't like body line??

Absolutely terrible tactics.

You have a team without their holding bowler, Lyon and their only tactic is the short ball. If you just show any sort of patience, then the pace bowlers will eventually tire themselves out and (as they've shown) there is no effective Plan B and (of course) no holding bowler to give them a rest.

If you're idiots, you attack every ball like it's 20/20 and gift the opposition wickets.

[valiant_593]

Dreadful. I would have booed some of those batsman. How many times did Brook do the same thing and get away with it and then fall the same way. Utter garbage tactics. 180-1 Lyon injured, ausies all of the place, the win was there again on the plate and they have again thrown it away. Shocking 

[CambridgeDon]

Not so much gutless (though there wasn't very much courage on display) as a completely witless approach, falling every time into the Aussie's only ploy of bowling short. Now, after losing six wickets for 48 runs in less than a morning's session, it's uphill all the way. 

Just bemused really - how can we turn up at Lord's with the Aussies only decent spinner out of the game and play so badly? 

[robf]

4 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Dreadful. I would have booed some of those batsman. How many times did Brook do the same thing and get away with it and then fall the same way. Utter garbage tactics. 180-1 Lyon injured, ausies all of the place, the win was there again on the plate and they have again thrown it away. Shocking 

Absolutely agree. Stokes - it's a good ball and an early wicket. But the Brook dismissal was awful and he could have got out about 10 times in this innings. 

There was a real glimmer of a chance with Lyon's injury and prior to today, Aus also had issues with Starc (expensive) and Green (no balls).

If England had just knuckled down and played a long game, they could be in control of this. It's day three of five, not an ODI. Yes, there are times to accelerate and put the pressure on, but that's surely when you are in charge, set and not when you've already been lucky several times with wafts because at some point when you're chancing it, your luck will run out. 

I would say now, they are more then likely to go 2-0 down and that's pretty much series over.

[darren1810]

A dreadful morning. Probably pivotal. Defeat looks likely now .

There is Bazball and there is stupidity as others have said.