Championship Ready.

[philpvfc]

We weren’t lucky to get promoted. The only lucky team were Bristol Rovers, winning 7-1 on the last game because they played Scunthorpe reserves. We deserved to go up the year that Covid hit, unbeaten in 9, beaten the top 8 and only because of some terrible officiating at Cheltenham last game we slipped one place out of the play offs which allowed Cheltenham and Northampton to go up instead.

[valefan16]

The final wasn’t luck at all, granted we could of conceded 2 through errors but we absolutely battered them with and without 11.

Harratt hits the post rolls across the line

Gibbo does some lovely link up play and blazes over between the first two goals

Mal bursts clean through fires straight at the keeper (think Kian was in a position to tap into an empty net if squared) so could easily have been 5-0 in a 10 minute spell before the red card.

After that Wilson skims a free kick wide and fired an absolute sitter he scuffed at the keeper when he got into a great position last kick of the half.

Add in 2 ruled out, Taylor firing just wide second half and the goal we got had we won’t that 7 or 8-2 Mansfield couldn’t really have complained.

No luck in that at all.

Semi Final was a game where at key points we shown the right character, Swindon didn’t turn up second leg and were lucky to get to pens with the chances we had, Wilson missed from a yard out seconds before his goal, blazed over from a great position when their keeper saved the initial shot, Smudge hitting the post etc.

We bottled Auto which was there for the taking and should of been done but found the right character when it mattered in the play offs.

No luck at all. If we hadn’t had the injuries we did we’d probably have secured auto.

[Bycarsbill]

1 hour ago, Guitar Ray said:

Depends how you define luck.  I wouldn’t say it was a “lucky early let off”.  It’s not luck that their guy missed that opportunity, in the same way that it wasn’t luck that gave him the opportunity in the first place.  It was poor finishing from their guy and poor play on our part prior to that.  I’d suggest that luck would be the ball comfortably beating Stone then being blocked on the line by the pigeon that normally roosts above my seat in the Bycars, complete chance.

Blimey, that's a bit too deep for me. More like a dissertation for a Phd in philosophy! Anyway, the outcome was promotion, so I  dunna care how it's defined!

[Biddulph_PV]

1 hour ago, valefan16 said:

The final wasn’t luck at all, granted we could of conceded 2 through errors but we absolutely battered them with and without 11.

Harratt hits the post rolls across the line

Gibbo does some lovely link up play and blazes over between the first two goals

Mal bursts clean through fires straight at the keeper (think Kian was in a position to tap into an empty net if squared) so could easily have been 5-0 in a 10 minute spell before the red card.

After that Wilson skims a free kick wide and fired an absolute sitter he scuffed at the keeper when he got into a great position last kick of the half.

Add in 2 ruled out, Taylor firing just wide second half and the goal we got had we won’t that 7 or 8-2 Mansfield couldn’t really have complained.

No luck in that at all.

Semi Final was a game where at key points we shown the right character, Swindon didn’t turn up second leg and were lucky to get to pens with the chances we had, Wilson missed from a yard out seconds before his goal, blazed over from a great position when their keeper saved the initial shot, Smudge hitting the post etc.

We bottled Auto which was there for the taking and should of been done but found the right character when it mattered in the play offs.

No luck at all. If we hadn’t had the injuries we did we’d probably have secured auto.

Agree with most of that but would maybe question the last two lines.

If you look at some the games certainly towards the end (Oldham away, Brizzle and Newport at home for example) you could say we certainly played with ourselves, especially if the POFSF2L and Final were the benchmark. 

However the team he played in those last two PO games was straight out of leftfield.

Gibbo at RCB?? Plus Taylor as the playmaker (given he had an absolute shocker against Brizzle) and Harratt leading the line (very inexperienced and more of an impact sub to that point) starting.

But by some miracle arguably the line-up most suited to 5-3-2 given the quality of the football we played. 

You had a bit of everything… solid at the back with good heading ability (Hall, Smith), aggression (all), technical (Hall and Gibbo) plus attacking, creative WBs (Benning, Wozza), creativity (Taylor), stopper (Pett) plus goals and running (Garrity) in midfield plus the sublime Wilson and fox-in-box terroriser Harratt. If you look at the highlights on Quest (?) when they talked through some of the tactical aspects which were incredible. 

Would we have found that formula had we not have been so bad for 80 mins at Swindon in the 1st leg and needing to do something pretty dramatic to turn it round??

And why have we not carried on that template and resorted to really bland, uninspiring, safety-first (which has been anything but) football??

[NorthwoodValiant]

7 minutes ago, Biddulph_PV said:

Agree with most of that but would maybe question the last two lines.

If you look at some the games certainly towards the end (Oldham away, Brizzle and Newport at home for example) you could say we certainly played with ourselves, especially if the POFSF2L and Final were the benchmark. 

However the team he played in those last two PO games was straight out of leftfield.

Gibbo at RCB?? Plus Taylor as the playmaker (given he had an absolute shocker against Brizzle) and Harratt leading the line (very inexperienced and more of an impact sub to that point) starting.

But by some miracle arguably the line-up most suited to 5-3-2 given the quality of the football we played. 

You had a bit of everything… solid at the back with good heading ability (Hall, Smith), aggression (all), technical (Hall and Gibbo) plus attacking, creative WBs (Benning, Wozza), creativity (Taylor), stopper (Pett) plus goals and running (Garrity) in midfield plus the sublime Wilson and fox-in-box terroriser Harratt. If you look at the highlights on Quest (?) when they talked through some of the tactical aspects which were incredible. 

Would we have found that formula had we not have been so bad for 80 mins at Swindon in the 1st leg and needing to do something pretty dramatic to turn it round??

And why have we not carried on that template and resorted to really bland, uninspiring, safety-first (which has been anything but) football??

You're right come to think of it, the reason why we were so brilliant in those gams is because our LCB and RCB's were both attacking high up the Pitch, Benning played best with Hall and Taylor being the playmaker in midfield worked brilliantly

[Guitar Ray]

1 hour ago, Bycarsbill said:

Blimey, that's a bit too deep for me. More like a dissertation for a Phd in philosophy! Anyway, the outcome was promotion, so I  dunna care how it's defined!

Apologies, just disregard the pigeon bit and it’s a lot clearer. 👍🏻

[Guitar Ray]

12 minutes ago, NorthwoodValiant said:

You're right come to think of it, the reason why we were so brilliant in those gams is because our LCB and RCB's were both attacking high up the Pitch, Benning played best with Hall and Taylor being the playmaker in midfield worked brilliantly

Not to mention our wingbacks were pretty dominant at that level.  Therein lies part of the problem this season.

[NorthwoodValiant]

17 minutes ago, Guitar Ray said:

Not to mention our wingbacks were pretty dominant at that level.  Therein lies part of the problem this season.

so it's not the system it's the players?....

[Warren]

This is history. We need to cement L1 this year and next and maybe play Mansfield in a few years time if they get promoted. 

[JoeB2]

1 hour ago, Biddulph_PV said:

Agree with most of that but would maybe question the last two lines.

If you look at some the games certainly towards the end (Oldham away, Brizzle and Newport at home for example) you could say we certainly played with ourselves, especially if the POFSF2L and Final were the benchmark. 

However the team he played in those last two PO games was straight out of leftfield.

Gibbo at RCB?? Plus Taylor as the playmaker (given he had an absolute shocker against Brizzle) and Harratt leading the line (very inexperienced and more of an impact sub to that point) starting.

But by some miracle arguably the line-up most suited to 5-3-2 given the quality of the football we played. 

You had a bit of everything… solid at the back with good heading ability (Hall, Smith), aggression (all), technical (Hall and Gibbo) plus attacking, creative WBs (Benning, Wozza), creativity (Taylor), stopper (Pett) plus goals and running (Garrity) in midfield plus the sublime Wilson and fox-in-box terroriser Harratt. If you look at the highlights on Quest (?) when they talked through some of the tactical aspects which were incredible. 

Would we have found that formula had we not have been so bad for 80 mins at Swindon in the 1st leg and needing to do something pretty dramatic to turn it round??

And why have we not carried on that template and resorted to really bland, uninspiring, safety-first (which has been anything but) football??

The team that started the playoff final is miles better than our best 11 from this season. 

[Walka003]

We won the final because clough played a diamond against a team with two high performing wing backs. I think if that games played another 10 times we win it 9 due to the fact that he got his tactics so wrong.

[Bycarsbill]

12 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

Apologies, just disregard the pigeon bit and it’s a lot clearer. 👍🏻

No apology required, but thank you anyway.

[Guitar Ray]

13 hours ago, NorthwoodValiant said:

so it's not the system it's the players?....

To a greater degree.  We’ve predominantly played the same system this season as last whilst also using many of the same players.  You can also look at individuals who shone last season but this season have been less impressive.  Without singling out any of our current players I’ll use Connor Hall as an example, outstanding last season to say the least, but subsequently struggled to hit the higher levels consistently in League 1 prior to his departure, in fact he was miles off initially.

[Biddulph_PV]

11 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

To a greater degree.  We’ve predominantly played the same system this season as last whilst also using many of the same players.  You can also look at individuals who shone last season but this season have been less impressive.  Without singling out any of our current players I’ll use Connor Hall as an example, outstanding last season to say the least, but subsequently struggled to hit the higher levels consistently in League 1 prior to his departure, in fact he was miles off initially.

Again, agree to a point. I think for 5-3-2 to be played properly you need very specific types of players, arguably most so than under a flat back 4. The CB’s literally need a bit of everything - height and aggression yes, but the ability to carry the ball upfield and create and well as being positionally aware to cover a WB caught out of position. The WB’s are having to cover the whole length of the pitch, so need to work in tandem with the CB and midfield. Irrespective of Hall’s difficulties in adapting to this level - and I agree he was at fault for a couple of early goals and didn’t look anywhere near as comfortable - is it a coincidence that our form has dropped off a cliff since he went?? 

And if you take it back to last year, we were struggling at the point he came to us. I do think he brought some assurance, organisation and confidence and his absence has a bit to do with our current predicament if I’m honest. I’m certain that we’d be safe now if he’d stayed. 

[Guitar Ray]

27 minutes ago, Biddulph_PV said:

Again, agree to a point. I think for 5-3-2 to be played properly you need very specific types of players, arguably most so than under a flat back 4. The CB’s literally need a bit of everything - height and aggression yes, but the ability to carry the ball upfield and create and well as being positionally aware to cover a WB caught out of position. The WB’s are having to cover the whole length of the pitch, so need to work in tandem with the CB and midfield. Irrespective of Hall’s difficulties in adapting to this level - and I agree he was at fault for a couple of early goals and didn’t look anywhere near as comfortable - is it a coincidence that our form has dropped off a cliff since he went?? 

And if you take it back to last year, we were struggling at the point he came to us. I do think he brought some assurance, organisation and confidence and his absence has a bit to do with our current predicament if I’m honest. I’m certain that we’d be safe now if he’d stayed. 

You could argue having one less central defender in a 4 means that the 2 have to be better defenders to compensate.  It’s not straightforward, formations should be fluid and usually are.  You could play 4 at the back and the fullbacks sit in or alternatively constantly try to overlap beyond the wingers/wide midfielders.  Often the numbers mean little, 532 could be 5212, 5221, 541, 3223, 3412, 343 etc. etc. during the game depending on the opposition and how the game is panning out.  If we’re on top in a game we won’t have a bank of 5 lined up at the back all game that’s for sure.

Regarding Hall, he was dropped for Jones who came in and did well until he got injured at Shrews and I think most were happy with Jones apart from the odd silly pass.  Whatever Hall offered last season he wasn’t showing consistently this and unfortunately we didn’t get chance to see if he’d significantly improve with more games at this level.  Both players were preferable to Donnelly, if only because of their greater experience.