Gavin Williamson

[Joe B]

5 minutes ago, Mario said:

Would there be a risk that teachers and headmasters in particular would be "lenient" on results knowing that Ofsted mark on results and they would like as high a position in the league table as possible ?

OFSTED have reduced the importance of data in school assessments.

It is now much more based on curriculum. We had an INSET day detailing it. Coherence, breadth, in-depth planning etc etc.

Obviously data has a role to play and pure league tables influence parents a lot, but OFSTED no longer put primacy on results. They'll look at them during the visit but more emphasis is based on whether the provision has been thought through, is consistent, delivers it aims, and is understood by all staff.

Pure league tables aren't great metrics, and progress8 and attainment8 are largely influenced by how the feeder schools approach SATs. I would defer to progress8 if I had to, as it can benefit schools with cohort who arrive with less support, but looking at raw % of 7-9, 5-9, and 4-9 doesn't tell you a great deal. 

[Andyregs]

8 minutes ago, Mario said:

Would there be a risk that teachers and headmasters in particular would be "lenient" on results knowing that Ofsted mark on results and they would like as high a position in the league table as possible ?

No. There won’t be league tables this year, and the results won’t be used for inspections. 

[Mario]

1 minute ago, Joe B said:

OFSTED have reduced the importance of data in school assessments.

It is now much more based on curriculum. We had an INSET day detailing it. Coherence, breadth, in-depth planning etc etc.

Obviously data has a roll to play and pure league tables influence parents' a lot, but OFSTED no longer put primacy on results. They'll look at them during the visit but more emphasis is based on whether the provision has been thought through, is consistent, delivers it aims, and is understood by all staff.

It's a much better system, in my opinion.

Thats good to know, but as you say parents will look at a pure league table and if their childs school is low in the table for what ever reason thats how they will judge, thats another reason why I feel that league tables are a flawed idea.

[Andyregs]

4 minutes ago, Mario said:

Thats good to know, but as you say parents will look at a pure league table and if their childs school is low in the table for what ever reason thats how they will judge, thats another reason why I feel that league tables are a flawed idea.

The problem is that there is a difference between how schools are judged and how parents and he press use league tables. Schools are judged on how much progress a student makes regardless of their starting point. Parents and the press tend to look at the bottom line, and shock horror, selective schools do better. 

[TheSage]

5 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

As and A*s rose by 4.7% at fee paying institutions under the algorithm but only by 2% at comprehensives.  That clearly shows the algorithm was biased in favour of the posh kids.  Also, Ofqual said the vast majority of teachers had submitted accurate estimates to exam boards.

The Joint Council for Qualifications (JCQ) commented on "teacher's grading accuracy" as the initial results awarded showed teacher estimates - to within one grade - accurate in 96.4% of cases. I'd say that is pretty remarkable when you've got, what, 7 grades to take into account. 

It's clearly impossibly difficult to hit the nail on the head at all times. I believe in previous years predicted grades were submitted many months in advance of the exams and if you think making predictions are easy when human beings are involved and anything can happen on the day then try doing the pools every Saturday and see how you fare.

The point some are missing/forgetting in all this is that A levels are norm referenced and only so many can achieve grade A and B and so on. The grades are rationed regardless of how well you might have done. That's why Ofqual step in every year and tell the exam boards where to draw the lines - according to how many they want to accept at different levels. 

Speaking to someone I know this afternoon, he said the problem he'd had was mainly with grade B students. He reckoned he'd had 5 of them originally but 3 were downgraded to a C. It wasn't fair because 2/3 were the good, solid B students and it was the borderline ones who kept their Bs! Thankfully it's now changed. 

It's not perfect but has to be the least bad way of doing this in these unique times we find ourselves in.

[Andyregs]

5 minutes ago, TheSage said:

The Joint Council for Qualifications (JCQ) commented on "teacher's grading accuracy" as the initial results awarded showed teacher estimates - to within one grade - accurate in 96.4% of cases. I'd say that is pretty remarkable when you've got, what, 7 grades to take into account. 

It's clearly impossibly difficult to hit the nail on the head at all times. I believe in previous years predicted grades were submitted many months in advance of the exams and if you think making predictions are easy when human beings are involved and anything can happen on the day then try doing the pools every Saturday and see how you fare.

The point some are missing/forgetting in all this is that A levels are norm referenced and only so many can achieve grade A and B and so on. The grades are rationed regardless of how well you might have done. That's why Ofqual step in every year and tell the exam boards where to draw the lines - according to how many they want to accept at different levels. 

Speaking to someone I know this afternoon, he said the problem he'd had was mainly with grade B students. He reckoned he'd had 5 of them originally but 3 were downgraded to a C. It wasn't fair because 2/3 were the good, solid B students and it was the borderline ones who kept their Bs! Thankfully it's now changed. 

It's not perfect but has to be the least bad way of doing this in these unique times we find ourselves in.

It’s 9 grades now (1-9 with 9 being the highest). 
I think the difficulty comes in the fact that many students could go either way. If you have a student who has been generally on a path to a grade 4, but on a bad day could realistically get a 3, what should the teacher predict knowing that a grade 3 will mean having to resit the gcse (after not having any lessons for 6 months) and miss the qualifications at college they want? Some of those students (but not all) would get a grade 3.  The government erring on the side of caution due to a global pandemic in order to not unfairly hold students back (who are going to start their working life in far more difficult circumstances than any of us have) is not an outrage or a scandal. It’s the absolute least they can do. Older people with careers and mortgages half paid, complaining how these students have unfairly benefited from this are so out of touch and selfish it’s ridiculous.  

[Playa Amodores]

It did affect the government as Dominic Raab became known as Dominic Rbbb.

[Jacko51]

45 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

It’s 9 grades now (1-9 with 9 being the highest). 
 

Isn't that in the GCSEs, not the A Levels??

[Regal Beagle]

Have to say Boris and this Government are starting to annoy me.

 

Getting sick of the u-turns, sick of the dipping of toes in the water before announcing policies, sick of the lack of backbone and lack of being pro-active.

 

Although, I know the usual tin foil hatters are saying this is far more worse than just a <ovf censored> up and an embarrassing u-turn, but lets not forget the Welsh and Scottish both agreed with it 2 weeks ago too and have both u-turned since.

 

 

 

[Andyregs]

44 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Isn't that in the GCSEs, not the A Levels??

It is. I had that in my head as the current news is about the GCSE’s with them being tomorrow. 

[Jacko51]

3 hours ago, Playa Amodores said:

It did affect the government as Dominic Raab became known as Dominic Rbbb.

And our beloved Prime Minister will now be known as Doris Johnson.

[Andyregs]

9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

The grades this year will mean very little outside of the academic world.  In the land of employment, they will always be the results that never were.  I agree with the u-turn and hopefully its opened up further education avenues to those who want to go down that path, but, I would advise anybody taking these awarded grades into the job market to seriously consider the option to sit the exam for real.

GCSE’s are important to jobs where academic results are important, only in that it gives entry into A-levels and university. Those are generally the grades that are checked by employers. I’d advise anyone wanting to go into jobs where academic results are important, to focus their time on their A-levels, apprenticeship or  degree. 

[philpvfc]

12 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Have to say Boris and this Government are starting to annoy me.

 

Getting sick of the u-turns, sick of the dipping of toes in the water before announcing policies, sick of the lack of backbone and lack of being pro-active.

 

Although, I know the usual tin foil hatters are saying this is far more worse than just a <ovf censored> up and an embarrassing u-turn, but lets not forget the Welsh and Scottish both agreed with it 2 weeks ago too and have both u-turned since.

 

 

 

The Government are a shambles. I don’t disagree with the Government doing a u-turn as their method of assessing was a shambles yet again and though I don’t agree with teachers assessments being used it is probably better than what they had come up with.

Sources I know who deal with Boris say he is still very ill and cannot go long without having to rest. If true and he is not going to get better soon  IMO he should step down, possibly after January when we have left the EU, with or without a deal and the country has another election without the debate of Brexit. Big call, but the country needs a leader, it certainly hasn’t got one under Boris at this current time.

[philpvfc]

39 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

GCSE’s are important to jobs where academic results are important, only in that it gives entry into A-levels and university. Those are generally the grades that are checked by employers. I’d advise anyone wanting to go into jobs where academic results are important, to focus their time on their A-levels, apprenticeship or  degree. 

Agree 100%

[go4goal]

Now to fire off a  plethora of furious replies -

as in all aspects of life certain facts remain and will never change !

1) OVF contributors, polticians, teachers are all human beings (?) and as such are not always right -

           but all think they are !

2) They have their own agenda -

          to be heard (controversially) for the good of all !

3) Some are better than others at what they do - most of us have come across at some point the bigots, the genuine and not so genuine, the effective and ineffective -

         the latter 2 occupations often try to blame it on others for their shortcomings, be it pandemics, badly parented pupils etc rather than their own lack of control skills or knowledge.

but teachers have a secret weapon - the Unions who will take on for them any right/left wing authority (which ever is the appropriate opposite of the one prevalent at that given polnt in time), often safeguarding in doing so the less competent of their members.

I have no doubt that Gavin Williamson believes he is acting in the best interests for the children, and I for one think it is better to U-turn and admit the mistakes rather than to just continue on and compound the error.  

I suggest a new section of OVF - 'the perfect ones'! ............ not many who would qualify for membership, but numerous ones who would claim to......!