Black Lives Matter

[Iron Curtain]

18 minutes ago, geosname said:

Which racist act?..... the words on the banner aren't racist... unless you are suggesting it means only white lives matter or you are suggesting white lives don't matter..... either may be seen as racist.

So asking a question aligns you to  something?

I'm not sure you would know a fact if it bit you.

The words on your “rebecca’s life matters” banner would not be offensive if you walked it behind Robbie whilst he was giving his speech.

So you would be cool with it?

 

[Regal Beagle]

53 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

The very fact you asked aligns you with those that did it.  Like it or not that's a fact and if you asked to portray yourself as some sort of multi layered intellect then all you have managed to do is portray yourself as supporting a racist act.  Well done.

"if you are not with us you are against us"

 

Stop implying people are far right or racist for not having far left views, you will lose if you keep doing it.

 

You have not managed to explain once why the banner is actually racist, I suspect because you can't. If black lives matter is acceptable, then white lives matter is acceptable. You can't have different rules for black and white people without living in a deeply racist society.

I think what you are suggesting promotes racism far more than a banner over a football match that everyone thinks is a bit stupid.

 

 

 

[Regal Beagle]

9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

It was offensive because it belittled the work that football and the clubs have put into this campaign.  It was a deliberate act designed to provoke exactly the straw defence you, Geo and RB are using.  The words themselves are not racist or offensive, the timing and location made it racist and offensive because that's the context in which it was presented.

If you, Geo and RB want to stand shoulder to shoulder with Right Wing, EDL, racist football hooligans like the Burnley Suicide Squad then that's your choice.  Maybe give it VLF chant and go for a pint with the N40 in the Dinosour Arms.

I am genuinely offended by the adoption of black lives matter by the premier league.

 

I think it's disgusting that they pander to the far left and I think it's hilarious that they think people will buy it, it's such a lie from the Premier League.

 

So I don't really care if this banner belittled that. They should be more genuine and honest in their support for black people.

[darren1810]

22 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I am genuinely offended by the adoption of black lives matter by the premier league.

 

I think it's disgusting that they pander to the far left and I think it's hilarious that they think people will buy it, it's such a lie from the Premier League.

 

So I don't really care if this banner belittled that. They should be more genuine and honest in their support for black people.

I wonder if anyone opted out of the knee then they would get the abuse James McLean does ? Does seem rather forced and contrived. The Premier League is hugely multi cultural and I think I read about 30% of the players are black compared to 8% in the country. So no misrepresentation in football and hasn't been for years. 

Politics and sport don't mix. 

 

[Regal Beagle]

37 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

The words on your “rebecca’s life matters” banner would not be offensive if you walked it behind Robbie whilst he was giving his speech.

So you would be cool with it?

I'm not sure what point you are making with this rebecca's life stuff.

 

I don't doubt that Robbie has faced racism. I bet many of our friends and family used to use a nickname for him that would not be acceptable nowadays. A good example of changing attitudes (for the better) and hopefully we can admit that, that nickname is not acceptable today without calling our parents/grandparents/friends racist.

 

I would suggest to him that black lives matter had been hijacked for nefarious reasons weeks ago though, and this banner did nothing of the sort.

[Iron Curtain]

2 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I would suggest to him that black lives matter had been hijacked for nefarious reasons weeks ago though, and this banner did nothing of the sort.

I wonder how he would react to that?

I get your outrage... sheet anger on how the way this has played out... it feels like the outrage of a white bloke who racism has never affected.

Turns out those actually affected want change and are willing to offend a few snowflakes (to coin the rights favourite phrase).

Im absolutely not saying you are racist. I’m saying you have no where near the level of empathy required to understand the hurt and pain the black community face.

And therefore whilst your outrage and opinion on how you are not happy the way BLM is going about things is interesting to you, I don’t think it would go down well if you did have that chat with Robbie.

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

I am not sure what your last sentence has to do with the argument apart from you trying to instigate a personal attack again.   

 

1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

The very fact you asked aligns you with those that did it.  Like it or not that's a fact and if you asked to portray yourself as some sort of multi layered intellect then all you have managed to do is portray yourself as supporting a racist act.  Well done.

 

1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

I am not sure what your last sentence has to do with the argument apart from you trying to instigate a personal attack again.   

See above.

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

The words on your “rebecca’s life matters” banner would not be offensive if you walked it behind Robbie whilst he was giving his speech.

So you would be cool with it?

 

I don't have a banner.

Offensive isn't illegal per se.

I wouldn't do it.

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

As big as ignoring the entire context to that banner and just saying “the words are not offensive”??

Your interpretation of the context?

The words are not racist..... I didn't say not offensive.

[Iron Curtain]

16 minutes ago, geosname said:

I don't have a banner.

Offensive isn't illegal per se.

I wouldn't do it.

Well in that case it feels very much that you understand why there was offense, why it was inappropriate, you wouldnt do it yourself, why signs that have none racist words on it can hurt... and yet... yet... you seem to keep wanting to push the fact that the words when constructed in a sentence are not racist. 

It’s a very minor “win” to point that out... what it achieves I don’t really Know

[For Us All]

8 hours ago, geosname said:

I didn't ask if people were offended. 

From reactions it seems people saying black lives matter is acceptable but people saying white lives matter is racist.

That's a dangerous concept if the aim is equality for all.

The intent may have had racial motivation, I don't know, but if things are being judged on people being offended we are in serious trouble.

One things for certain geo,our freedom of speech is slowing being eroded away.

Why didn't the footballing authorities just stick with 'Kick It Out'?

[Iron Curtain]

51 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I'm not sure what point you are making with this rebecca's life stuff.

Yes you do.

Posters are saying over and over again that the sign Isn’t racist when taken completely isolated away from any other context.

Neither is a sign saying “Rebeccas life matters”... and yet everyone seems to agree that they wouldn’t hold it up above Robbies head while he was making his point about racism. 

Im simply trying to understand why one is ok and one isn’t?

Wpuld you hold up that sign over Robbie’s head? His Co presenter Rebecca’s life does matter, so it would be cool to hold up the sign right?
 

Let me ask a simpler question... do you think it was ok to fly that banner over the ground? 

[geosname]

1 minute ago, Iron Curtain said:

Well in that case it feels very much that you understand why there was offense, why it was inappropriate, you wouldnt do it yourself, why signs that have none racist words on it can hurt... and yet... yet... you seem to keep wanting to push the fact that the words when constructed in a sentence are not racist. 

It’s a very minor “win” to point that out... what it achieves I don’t really Know

It's quite simple.

Because you may be offended doesn't make it racist.

I don't do marches or carry banners for anything..... I may support them but would not participate.

[Iron Curtain]

2 minutes ago, For Us All said:

One things for certain geo,our freedom of speech is slowing being eroded away.

Why didn't the footballing authorities just stick with 'Kick It Out'?

Your freedom of speech is not being impacted at all. The bloke won’t go to prison for his actions.

This argument is the new “go to”... it’s the new “I don’t know how to argue this so I will just say my freedom of speech is being taken away”... which it isn’t.

[Regal Beagle]

39 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

I wonder how he would react to that?

I get your outrage... sheet anger on how the way this has played out... it feels like the outrage of a white bloke who racism has never affected.

Turns out those actually affected want change and are willing to offend a few snowflakes (to coin the rights favourite phrase).

Im absolutely not saying you are racist. I’m saying you have no where near the level of empathy required to understand the hurt and pain the black community face.

And therefore whilst your outrage and opinion on how you are not happy the way BLM is going about things is interesting to you, I don’t think it would go down well if you did have that chat with Robbie.

 

I don't think you should fight racism by being racist.

I don't think you should use racism to further an unrelated political cause, especially an extreme one

I don't believe people who claim that attacking Churchills statue is anything more than vindictive violence

 

I guess we just have very different view points. You seem to think you can speak for Robbie on the basis of his skin colour. You know what he must think because he is black.

I don't.

 

I absolutely expect that if I were to discuss this with Robbie that we would reach an agreement, if not absolute then at least I would put across my point that I support the fight against racism but do not support the far left political movement. Then it comes down to whether or not you think Robbie is a reasonable person or not.

If he doesn't respect that then that is his prerogative. He isn't any more an authority on far left activism than I am. He of course has more experience of racism than I will ever have, though that's not being disputed.

 

Being offended by the banner is wholly different than it being racist, worthy of police investigations and life time bans. You have a right to be offended. This Burnley fan has a right to express his opinion as do any BLM activists.