Match Thread: EFLT Port Vale v Newcastle Utd U21

[JRC]

8 hours ago, RailwayRowdy said:

Premier League Newcastle’s U21’s lose to basically Vale’s second string. Similar stories surround other U21 sides. What does this say about the standard of development squads in the top two divisions ?

A quick look at Newcastle’s team last night shows that only Jamie Sterry has any league experience at all. The other 10 are all around the 19/20 age so are not exactly youngsters. 

This tends to suggest to me that these players are never going to make it at league level for any club. I don’t know how far down the pecking order these players are at Newcastle, but it’s highly unlikely they are going to make a league appearance at St James’.

Yet the whole pretence of allowing the higher grade teams into this competition was to groom them for this eventuality ! 

I, like many others, don’t think that these teams should be playing in this competition, but if they are the least they could do would be to field a competitive side. 
 

With regards to my above comments, it’s now quite apparent that neither the U21 sides or indeed our level clubs are gaining anything from this Trophy in its current form.

Sad, but true.

The ridiculous thing is these under 23 players are on more than division one and two players. The money being played to 21 and 22 year olds who aren't conference standard is staggering. They then fade to obscurity because nobody at our level can meet their inflated wage demands.

[RailwayRowdy]

As I see it, the biggest problem with all clubs at all levels is that they have too many professionals who cannot get a game. 

Match day squads now have to be the starting eleven plus seven subs. Simple maths tells you that you then need a minimum of 18 players. If the management then feels that he needs squad players to cover these positions, then the minimum required pro’s starts at 30+.

The problem is all down to this pointless transfer window. In days gone by, match day squads would be 12. Vale for example, would then have a pro staff (+ 1st year pro’s) of around 18. Then if injuries hit, you would use the loan system, This is no longer an option.

So managers then have to have more pro’s than they would normally want. Consequently they feel the need to give them a game to keep them relatively happy. Where do they then get a game ? Cup competitions , which in my era was the highlight of the season, not the now perceived hinderence.

So we now have massive squads due to perceived necessity throughout the league’s with numerous players who are not up to the required standard and who are rarely going to play.

 Or am I missing something ?

 

 

[blackdog]

28 minutes ago, RailwayRowdy said:

As I see it, the biggest problem with all clubs at all levels is that they have too many professionals who cannot get a game. 

Match day squads now have to be the starting eleven plus seven subs. Simple maths tells you that you then need a minimum of 18 players. If the management then feels that he needs squad players to cover these positions, then the minimum required pro’s starts at 30+.

The problem is all down to this pointless transfer window. In days gone by, match day squads would be 12. Vale for example, would then have a pro staff (+ 1st year pro’s) of around 18. Then if injuries hit, you would use the loan system, This is no longer an option.

So managers then have to have more pro’s than they would normally want. Consequently they feel the need to give them a game to keep them relatively happy. Where do they then get a game ? Cup competitions , which in my era was the highlight of the season, not the now perceived hinderence.

So we now have massive squads due to perceived necessity throughout the league’s with numerous players who are not up to the required standard and who are rarely going to play.

 Or am I missing something ?

 

 

I dont think you have missed anything,the transfer window as you quite rightly state leads to massive and in a lot cases unaffordable squads.

[JRC]

Quite enjoyed last night's game and watched it all having planned to just watch the first 15 minutes. Initially thought we were in for a drubbing but what was very much a scratch team adapted ok. Conlon and Lloyd started off out played by their central 3 but more than had parity for the remainder of the first half. Last 30 minutes of the first half was the best I've seen from Lloyd, although Conlon was better. Their right winger gave Evans a pretty difficult first 20 minutes but he found his way back into the game.

Thought Browne was disappointing although he took his goal well, the ball was way over the line. Archer wasn't as good as I hoped. Cullen clearly a finisher, although the teams overall lack of height disadvantages him compared to the other forward options. Trickett-smith has good touch, hard to be 100% certain he can make the step up but worth another run out.

Brisley is clearly a good backup for Smith and Legge. I expected Kennedy's distribution to be a bit better than it was. Atkinson has played better for us. Keeper looked at least competent. 

Overall thought we deserved the win. Lots of new combinations tried. Could have done better in a lot of areas but considering most combinations were new to one another I didn't expect perfection.

[pensioner]

9 hours ago, RailwayRowdy said:

Premier League Newcastle’s U21’s lose to basically Vale’s second string. Similar stories surround other U21 sides. What does this say about the standard of development squads in the top two divisions ?

A quick look at Newcastle’s team last night shows that only Jamie Sterry has any league experience at all. The other 10 are all around the 19/20 age so are not exactly youngsters. 

This tends to suggest to me that these players are never going to make it at league level for any club. I don’t know how far down the pecking order these players are at Newcastle, but it’s highly unlikely they are going to make a league appearance at St James’.

Yet the whole pretence of allowing the higher grade teams into this competition was to groom them for this eventuality ! 

I, like many others, don’t think that these teams should be playing in this competition, but if they are the least they could do would be to field a competitive side. 
 

With regards to my above comments, it’s now quite apparent that neither the U21 sides or indeed our level clubs are gaining anything from this Trophy in its current form.

Sad, but true.

Premiership U21 players should be allowed in this competition !!!!!   BUT only if they are on loan to a 3rd or 4th division team !  That is how they will develop, not fannying around in an all U21 team that plays girly football once in a blue moon. How much has Jake come on during his loan. Vale have given him an opportunity to grow into good player and he is grasping it with both hands. Compare and contrast that with Clarke who chose not to come back here - whats he doing now. Look at all the current premier teams and those that flip up and down, how many of them have home grown players . One of those lads last night had 75 on his back.  Any normal person talking to him would say "Go On Loan - youve got Bob hope here !"

[blackdog]

32 minutes ago, pensioner said:

Premiership U21 players should be allowed in this competition !!!!!   BUT only if they are on loan to a 3rd or 4th division team !  That is how they will develop, not fannying around in an all U21 team that plays girly football once in a blue moon. How much has Jake come on during his loan. Vale have given him an opportunity to grow into good player and he is grasping it with both hands. Compare and contrast that with Clarke who chose not to come back here - whats he doing now. Look at all the current premier teams and those that flip up and down, how many of them have home grown players . One of those lads last night had 75 on his back.  Any normal person talking to him would say "Go On Loan - youve got Bob hope here !"

 I bet your eyes would water if we knew how much these U21's get paid,thats why the likes of Clarke are quite happy to scratch around getting a meaningless game here and there.

[Heatwave]

2 hours ago, RailwayRowdy said:

As I see it, the biggest problem with all clubs at all levels is that they have too many professionals who cannot get a game. 

Match day squads now have to be the starting eleven plus seven subs. Simple maths tells you that you then need a minimum of 18 players. If the management then feels that he needs squad players to cover these positions, then the minimum required pro’s starts at 30+.

The problem is all down to this pointless transfer window. In days gone by, match day squads would be 12. Vale for example, would then have a pro staff (+ 1st year pro’s) of around 18. Then if injuries hit, you would use the loan system, This is no longer an option.

So managers then have to have more pro’s than they would normally want. Consequently they feel the need to give them a game to keep them relatively happy. Where do they then get a game ? Cup competitions , which in my era was the highlight of the season, not the now perceived hinderence.

So we now have massive squads due to perceived necessity throughout the league’s with numerous players who are not up to the required standard and who are rarely going to play.

 Or am I missing something ?

 

 

What you're not missing are apostrophes; you just have too many of them. 😁

[The French Connection]

Thought he had an alright game in fairness! Does anyone know if it was him that played the assist for the 2nd goal? I thought it was him but the vale twitter credited Taylor with it? Either way it was a good pass

It was Lloyd.

[cheshirevaliant]

I've not been to a game in this competition since they started allowing youth teams in. However, since we have been playing this tournament in its current format, have Vale come up against an u23 player who has become a household name, or even a solid league footballer, or have these u23 players all disappeared into non league obscurity? 

[Wrex]

1 hour ago, cheshirevaliant said:

I've not been to a game in this competition since they started allowing youth teams in. However, since we have been playing this tournament in its current format, have Vale come up against an u23 player who has become a household name, or even a solid league footballer, or have these u23 players all disappeared into non league obscurity? 

2016-17: Derby County U23
Ravas - Derby County U23
Hanson - Oxford United (League 1)
Rawson - Forest Green Rovers (League 2)
MacDonald - Blackpool (League 1)
Wassall - Derby County U23
Cover - free agent?
Stabana AFC Wimbledon (League 1)
Santos - Aldershot Town (National League)
Vernam - Chorley (National League)
Guy - Blackpool (League 1)
Babos - Derby County U23
Gordon - Mansfield (League 2)
Walker - QPR (Championship)
Riis Jakobsen - Randers (Danish top-flght)
Bogle - Derby first-team
Barnes - Derby County U23
Cresswell - Derby County U23
Thomas - Barnsley (Championship)

2017-18: Newcastle United U23
Harker - Blyth Spartans (National League North)
O'Connor - Newcastle United U23
Cameron - Torquay United (National League)
Sterry - Newcastle United U23
Gillesphey - Brisbane Roar (Australia)
Yarney - Chesterfield (National League)
Barlaser - Rotherham  (League 1)
Smith - free agent?
Sangare - Newcastle United U23
Fernández Satué - Newcastle United U23
Charman - Newcastle United U23
Gallagher - free agent?
McNall - free agent?
Woolston - Manchester United U23
Kitchen - Whitby Town (non-league)
Ben El-Mhanni - Scunthorpe (League 2)
Bailey - Newcastle United U23
Heaney - free agent?

cba/seems a bit too recent to have a look at last season's lot

[Heatwave]

14 hours ago, Wrex said:

2016-17: Derby County U23
Ravas - Derby County U23
Hanson - Oxford United (League 1)
Rawson - Forest Green Rovers (League 2)
MacDonald - Blackpool (League 1)
Wassall - Derby County U23
Cover - free agent?
Stabana AFC Wimbledon (League 1)
Santos - Aldershot Town (National League)
Vernam - Chorley (National League)
Guy - Blackpool (League 1)
Babos - Derby County U23
Gordon - Mansfield (League 2)
Walker - QPR (Championship)
Riis Jakobsen - Randers (Danish top-flght)
Bogle - Derby first-team
Barnes - Derby County U23
Cresswell - Derby County U23
Thomas - Barnsley (Championship)

2017-18: Newcastle United U23
Harker - Blyth Spartans (National League North)
O'Connor - Newcastle United U23
Cameron - Torquay United (National League)
Sterry - Newcastle United U23
Gillesphey - Brisbane Roar (Australia)
Yarney - Chesterfield (National League)
Barlaser - Rotherham  (League 1)
Smith - free agent?
Sangare - Newcastle United U23
Fernández Satué - Newcastle United U23
Charman - Newcastle United U23
Gallagher - free agent?
McNall - free agent?
Woolston - Manchester United U23
Kitchen - Whitby Town (non-league)
Ben El-Mhanni - Scunthorpe (League 2)
Bailey - Newcastle United U23
Heaney - free agent?

cba/seems a bit too recent to have a look at last season's lot

Seems about par for the course. It's the sort of player we bring in like Jake Taylor and then, if they impress sufficiently and we have the readies, sign a contract. 

[cheshirevaliant]

17 hours ago, Wrex said:

2016-17: Derby County U23
Ravas - Derby County U23
Hanson - Oxford United (League 1)
Rawson - Forest Green Rovers (League 2)
MacDonald - Blackpool (League 1)
Wassall - Derby County U23
Cover - free agent?
Stabana AFC Wimbledon (League 1)
Santos - Aldershot Town (National League)
Vernam - Chorley (National League)
Guy - Blackpool (League 1)
Babos - Derby County U23
Gordon - Mansfield (League 2)
Walker - QPR (Championship)
Riis Jakobsen - Randers (Danish top-flght)
Bogle - Derby first-team
Barnes - Derby County U23
Cresswell - Derby County U23
Thomas - Barnsley (Championship)

2017-18: Newcastle United U23
Harker - Blyth Spartans (National League North)
O'Connor - Newcastle United U23
Cameron - Torquay United (National League)
Sterry - Newcastle United U23
Gillesphey - Brisbane Roar (Australia)
Yarney - Chesterfield (National League)
Barlaser - Rotherham  (League 1)
Smith - free agent?
Sangare - Newcastle United U23
Fernández Satué - Newcastle United U23
Charman - Newcastle United U23
Gallagher - free agent?
McNall - free agent?
Woolston - Manchester United U23
Kitchen - Whitby Town (non-league)
Ben El-Mhanni - Scunthorpe (League 2)
Bailey - Newcastle United U23
Heaney - free agent?

cba/seems a bit too recent to have a look at last season's lot

Cheers Wrex. There aren't many who are playing at a higher level than our first team then. Further proves the argument that the whole thing is a waste of time in my view. 

[pensioner]

1 hour ago, cheshirevaliant said:

Cheers Wrex. There aren't many who are playing at a higher level than our first team then. Further proves the argument that the whole thing is a waste of time in my view. 

Spot On - You dont see them coming through these ranks into the Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea areas as they end up in the lower leagues. The only benefit to the U21 players is short term as while they are not playing real football they get a very decent wage, and when they progress out of the U21s they either go to lower league teams and get paid reasonably or they end up at Torquay like our ex loanee who thought he was much better than he actually was. A lot cannot come to Terms that they are not classed as Premier team footballers anymore and fall by the wayside - even though some of them never ever appeared in the Premiership.   

[Loggerheads Sage]

Anyone know when the draw for the next round is?

[valefan16]

Mansfield, Bolton, Wolves U21 or Doncaster for us in the first knock out.