James McClean

[Hagrid]

Is McClean a level-headed, rational, articulate lad? No.

 

He's a footballer, probably of low education. He hasn't handled things in the best manner, probably as a consequence of death threats and sectarian abuse since he made his stance from every single club he plays against.

[Heatwave]

Is McClean a level-headed, rational, articulate lad? No.

 

He's a footballer, probably of low education. He hasn't handled things in the best manner, probably as a consequence of death threats and sectarian abuse since he made his stance from every single club he plays against.

 

From what he says I think he's more bothered in how it would play 'back home' if he did wear one. Don't forget, Derry City is the only side in Northern Ireland to play in the Southern Irish league system. Why? Because they got the same treatment as McClean is getting (and worse) everywhere they played when in the Northern Irish league.

 

Personally I can understand why he takes his position and I for one don't blame him as to do otherwise would make his life hell once he's finished with football and goes home.

[Jacko51]

Also can't agree with your claims to ask the Irish 'leave the past', as if there wasn't innocent people killed (both by the IRA and the British Army) within most their lifetimes. There's so many wounds to heal and so much of the nation is fractured. They're hardly going to move on. The deep-set sectarian differences are not going be solved in people simply stop talking about/bringing up the Troubles.

 

I don't think McClean would deny the IRA committed atrocities. However, he isn't being asked to wear an IRA badge. No one is. I, and others, would support any English player in the Irish Leagues choosing not to wear an commemorative IRA badge (should one exist).

 

He is, however, being asked to wear a poppy commemorating all of the British soldiers. I struggle with this whataboutery. Yes, the IRA were bad. So were the British army. McClean's choosing not to celebrate those specific serviceman who contributed to Bloody Sunday.

 

Nemanja Matic didn't wear a poppy this week as it reminds him of British-led NATO bombing of his hometown in Serbia? Where's the outrage? Surely he has no right to, as Slobodan Milosevic also committed atrocities?

 

With respect, Hagrid, I have absolutely no problem with McClean, Matic or anyone else exercising their right not to wear a poppy. I don't see that as the issue here. His clear and blatant disrespect during the minute's silence on Saturday was, to my mind, a "look at me" moment intended to provoke. He should not be surprised he got a reaction. It looks to me like he clearly wanted one so he could play the victim again? And he is not the only footballer who has faced constant abuse from opposition supporters but he is, as far as I'm aware, the only one who has gone on social media and called those supporters c****.

 

The whole poppies on shirts thing was wrong from the start. No one should be required to wear one if they don't want to or what was the point of all the deaths they commemorate?

[Paul6754]

I think that there are very few of us who, should we have found ourselves in McClean's shoes, would be acting very differently to the way he has. (I should add that I'm talking about his general stance on the poppy thing rather than the 'disrespectful' stuff that Werrington outlined.) (EDIT: I wrote this before reading the previous post and agree with much of what was said.)

 

The Poppy is an enduring symbol of remembrance of the sacrifices made so we all can live in freedom such that the likes of James McClean have the opportunity and choice where to ply his trade as a footballer or whether to wear a poppy or not. I would stand up for his right to have and make those choices.

 

By refusing to wear the shirt/poppy he comes across as ignorant in that the UK has apologized for the terrible events on Bloody Sunday and that it has worked to put an end to the Irish troubles. He also comes across as ungrateful to a country where he has the freedom and choice to make a living beyond his wildest dreams.

 

However, the poppy is a revered national symbol of the UK and hence he should expect his actions will draw criticism. If he is such a man of principle he should make his living elsewhere but other countries wouldn't pay him so well to kick a ball about a field.

[TheSage]

Just to pour oil on troubled waters, it amazes me that he is perfectly happy to earn a very good living in England. Why doesn't he play in Ireland if he's so principled?

As Jacko says, it's his choice to do as he wishes but why stir the pot and not keep stum? That's what you do as a professional footballer. His reactions and comments are silly and provocative. Keep it shut.

 

(Paul has stolen my thunder. He might hold strong (and understandable views) but he's quite happy to take the money on offer in England).

[RailwayRowdy]

McClean and others always refer to Bloody Sunday in January ‘72 when unarmed catholic civilians were indeed killed by the Security Forces in Derry. It is however never mentioned that 7 British soldiers were killed by the IRA within Derry in the final months of ‘71.

 

So come the first month of the following year and the planned peaceful march against internment. Derry was like a tinderbox. Derry has a long standing history of sectarian violence with dates back way before Bloody Sunday.

 

Indeed Derry FC were forced to play home matches at Coleraine some 30 miles away as it was not deemed safe for visiting supporters. This also pre dates Bloody Sunday.

 

Whilst the Security Forces actions that fateful day were incomprehensible , it should be remembered that tensions between the two opposing parties could not have been higher.

 

One Young Squaddie lost his nerve and the rest, most regrettably is history.

[Jacko51]

McClean and others always refer to Bloody Sunday in January ‘72 when unarmed catholic civilians were indeed killed by the Security Forces in Derry. It is however never mentioned that 7 British soldiers were killed by the IRA within Derry in the final months of ‘71.

 

So come the first month of the following year and the planned peaceful march against internment. Derry was like a tinderbox. Derry has a long standing history of sectarian violence with dates back way before Bloody Sunday.

 

Indeed Derry FC were forced to play home matches at Coleraine some 30 miles away as it was not deemed safe for visiting supporters. This also pre dates Bloody Sunday.

 

Whilst the Security Forces actions that fateful day were incomprehensible , it should be remembered that tensions between the two opposing parties could not have been higher.

 

One Young Squaddie lost his nerve and the rest, most regrettably is history.

 

Not sure about the Young Squaddie bit, RR. The soldiers involved in the killings were from 1 Para so were actually elite forces. One of the main issues of the day was why Paras were involved in what was essentially a crowd control exercise. They are trained to work in key areas of conflict, often behind enemy lines. Their use in this situation was clearly completely inappropriate. It was like putting riot police in charge of controlling a WI march.

[JohnJames]

Can we get put this revered symbol crap to bed.

The poppy was created to get disabled soldiers back to work and to raise money for the legion,

That’s why people bought it,not for some jingoistic claptrap that caused the bloody wars in the first place,

I always buy 2 or 3 Poppy’s but NEVER wear them as that is my right and that is what soldiers fought for ...the right for free expression.

I always donated regularly to the Burma Star association as a chap I worked with spent his 21st birthday in a Jap POW camp and I saw how this had negatively effected him.

They did not fight for some so called patriots to glorify war and disability from their armchairs.

[For Us All]

Is McClean a level-headed, rational, articulate lad? No.

 

He's a footballer, probably of low education. He hasn't handled things in the best manner, probably as a consequence of death threats and sectarian abuse since he made his stance from every single club he plays against.

 

Can we get put this revered symbol crap to bed.

The poppy was created to get disabled soldiers back to work and to raise money for the legion,

That’s why people bought it,not for some jingoistic claptrap that caused the bloody wars in the first place,

I always buy 2 or 3 Poppy’s but NEVER wear them as that is my right and that is what soldiers fought for ...the right for free expression.

I always donated regularly to the Burma Star association as a chap I worked with spent his 21st birthday in a Jap POW camp and I saw how this had negatively effected him.

They did not fight for some so called patriots to glorify war and disability from their armchairs.

 

In my opinion it's nothing to do with the glorification of wars but more to do with respecting those who fought for the freedom that allows us to comment on this forum.

[Paul6754]

Can we get put this revered symbol crap to bed.

The poppy was created to get disabled soldiers back to work and to raise money for the legion,

That’s why people bought it,not for some jingoistic claptrap that caused the bloody wars in the first place,

I always buy 2 or 3 Poppy’s but NEVER wear them as that is my right and that is what soldiers fought for ...the right for free expression.

I always donated regularly to the Burma Star association as a chap I worked with spent his 21st birthday in a Jap POW camp and I saw how this had negatively effected him.

They did not fight for some so called patriots to glorify war and disability from their armchairs.

 

JJ, It isn't about what the poppy was created for but more about what it is now, what it's grown into, what it's become and there is no question in the majority of people's eyes in the UK what it's grown into and it's extremely poignant.

 

I understand James McClean's dilemma but some countries around the world would not tolerate such open, disrespectful attitude to a national symbol.

[Essex Vale]

I find the comments on this thread very interesting. In the past I have received some barbed comments from some well known posters on here for "deviating" from the subject. I remember one occasion when I was told that my comments were irrelevant when I commented about Danny Cowley on a thread referring to him. I also remember commenting about a specific subject and finding that the thread was arbitrarily closed when it was clear a number of people wished to comment about that specific subject.

 

I find that this particular thread was started because of the language used by James McClean on social media. This has now morphed into comments about the history of Ireland and a very pointed dig at the mindset of the Irish nation, an analysis of the British Military elite forces deployment, politics over several centuries, the wearing of poppies, the history of British servicemen. However the thread remains open, and people who have complained often in the past about "relevance" of posts under a thread heading continue to post their view of the world, war, life, politics and Irish history.

 

I urge the closing of this thread. What relevance does this have to Port Vale? Who on here really knows what level of education James McClean has? Who here has any experience of, and exposure to, elite military forces their deployment and tactics? (Actually I do, I served for 23 years, but will not inflict any of that on here) How many scholars of Irish history inhabit these pages?

 

Come on give it a rest, this is a Port Vale specific, and football general website.

 

James McClean has a right not to wear a poppy. He has a right to expect not to be abused for his views. He also has a responsibility not to insult supporters of his, or any other, football club. If he feels he is the victim of racism it should be investigate by the authorities.

 

What else is there to say?

 

End of rant.

[Houston Valiant]

I find the comments on this thread very interesting. In the past I have received some barbed comments from some well known posters on here for "deviating" from the subject. I remember one occasion when I was told that my comments were irrelevant when I commented about Danny Cowley on a thread referring to him. I also remember commenting about a specific subject and finding that the thread was arbitrarily closed when it was clear a number of people wished to comment about that specific subject.

 

I find that this particular thread was started because of the language used by James McClean on social media. This has now morphed into comments about the history of Ireland and a very pointed dig at the mindset of the Irish nation, an analysis of the British Military elite forces deployment, politics over several centuries, the wearing of poppies, the history of British servicemen. However the thread remains open, and people who have complained often in the past about "relevance" of posts under a thread heading continue to post their view of the world, war, life, politics and Irish history.

 

I urge the closing of this thread. What relevance does this have to Port Vale? Who on here really knows what level of education James McClean has? Who here has any experience of, and exposure to, elite military forces their deployment and tactics? (Actually I do, I served for 23 years, but will not inflict any of that on here) How many scholars of Irish history inhabit these pages?

 

Come on give it a rest, this is a Port Vale specific, and football general website.

 

James McClean has a right not to wear a poppy. He has a right to expect not to be abused for his views. He also has a responsibility not to insult supporters of his, or any other, football club. If he feels he is the victim of racism it should be investigate by the authorities.

 

What else is there to say?

 

End of rant.

 

 

Scholar of Irish History here. Close the thread.

[Valiant62]

Using the same criteria can we close the brexit thread?

[Jacko51]

Scholar of Irish History here. Close the thread.

 

Taught Irish history to 16 year olds for a number years. Close the thread.

[For Us All]

Declan Rice still hasn't decided whether he wants to play for England or the ROI.

Close the thread.