Neil Aspin says there is no excuse for crowd trouble at Grimsby game

[PV1973]

Supposing I do that - a bloke of 45 years' vocal, financial and emotional support walks away. Someone who has never even come close to starting or being part of any bother at games or outside grounds. There's now one less season ticket sold, one less voice of encouragement, one less person who cares about the Vale.

 

I'd suggest that from any sane and rational person's perspective, that is a nonsensical suggestion.

The point is that the hooligans who will go looking for trouble and also those that think its ok (involved or not) is not wanted amongst the majority of reasonable fans in the fanbase.

 

The question I'd be asking is if fans like those that want to fight didn't attend then what would could the club gain from other fans feeling more safe and bringing in their family and thus new fans?

 

Whether you're involved or not, you definitely come across like you think its ok to fight at a game, and I believe that your viewpoint is that its ok. You did the same earlier this season when there was some trouble at another match. Thats the mentality that no one wants and what most right minded people will condemn as being totally wrong.

[Davebrad]

Some people legged it out of one exit and back through another into the home end, others just seemed to go across the bit of flat tarmac in the corner. A few parked minibuses isn't really an adequate way to segregate home and away fans.

 

Saddest part of this is the fact that Football supporters have to be segregated at all !

 

it doesnt happen in any other sport i can think of - so why in this day and age do football supporters still have to be segregated ? - about time they grew up

 

this has happened at Vale outside gates have to be opened 10mins before the end of the game, 2-3 times if not more away fans have come in the home end because of this...

[robf]

Supposing I do that - a bloke of 45 years' vocal, financial and emotional support walks away. Someone who has never even come close to starting or being part of any bother at games or outside grounds. There's now one less season ticket sold, one less voice of encouragement, one less person who cares about the Vale.

 

I'd suggest that from any sane and rational person's perspective, that is a nonsensical suggestion.

 

On the contrary I would think any sane and rational football fan would say it is DEFINITELY the answer for them not to go.

 

What's better for the club?

 

1. The revenue from a few middle-aged fans who want to fight/encourage fighting.

 

2. Or the club losing that revenue but by making the club safer and more appealing for youngsters, encouraging a new generation of younger fans come along. Those fans will (by default of being younger) be fans for longer and bring more money in. They also won't do the same danage to the club's reputation that the violence-advocators do.

 

So, rationally, getting rid of people who think violence in football is fine is entirely rational and entirely sensible. It benefits the club's reputation and brings in more revenue.

 

I think if you're someone who thinks violence at games is justified and you'll somehow be missed - you are sadly and deeply mistaken!

[darren1810]

I think what we have to consider are the opposition fan base/ history between the clubs. None of what i put is condoning anything that went on whatsoever, just purely my opinion.

If we use League 2 as a start point, the games likely to be trouble are Crewe for obvious reasons, Grimsby , Luton, Lincoln and i will throw Mansfield into the pot.

There will never ever be a punch thrown in anger when we play Wycombe, Cheltenham, Morecambe, Crawley and a few more. These clubs have no known idiots or history with Vale. You didn't need to be a genius to know trouble was possible on Saturday. Can anyone recall the Police presence for the home game in October?

League one , we are fully aware of the Bolton and Sheff Utd games( both now Championship ) Throw in Shrewsbury, maybe Walsall as expected games for potential trouble.

Peterborough,Doncaster, Wimbledon,Fleetwood are again games where you would say not one hint of trouble, yet Fleetwood we sell out most times and half the Vale support are inebriated !! So maybe it isn't all down to drink.

What i am getting at is the nature of the games plays a part as does the perceived idiot fraternity from the other clubs.

None of what i have said condones anything at all just trying to say that not every game with a big following eg Fleetwood, Blackpool when we play them will mean aggro at the games.

Sadly sometimes this is the case with Vale and it isn't a nice environment for youngsters and loyal fans .

But i know Smithie has had some grief, before the trouble the atmosphere was great and he is correct, Vale away support in singing shocker. The chanting and baiting of Hooper and Kelly and the vocal support was fantastic on Saturday.

[Smugsy]

I think what we have to consider are the opposition fan base/ history between the clubs. None of what i put is condoning anything that went on whatsoever, just purely my opinion.

If we use League 2 as a start point, the games likely to be trouble are Crewe for obvious reasons, Grimsby , Luton, Lincoln and i will throw Mansfield into the pot.

There will never ever be a punch thrown in anger when we play Wycombe, Cheltenham, Morecambe, Crawley and a few more. These clubs have no known idiots or history with Vale. You didn't need to be a genius to know trouble was possible on Saturday. Can anyone recall the Police presence for the home game in October?

League one , we are fully aware of the Bolton and Sheff Utd games( both now Championship ) Throw in Shrewsbury, maybe Walsall as expected games for potential trouble.

Peterborough,Doncaster, Wimbledon,Fleetwood are again games where you would say not one hint of trouble, yet Fleetwood we sell out most times and half the Vale support are inebriated !! So maybe it isn't all down to drink.

What i am getting at is the nature of the games plays a part as does the perceived idiot fraternity from the other clubs.

None of what i have said condones anything at all just trying to say that not every game with a big following eg Fleetwood, Blackpool when we play them will mean aggro at the games.

Sadly this is the case with Vale and it isn't a nice environment for youngsters and loyal fans .

But i know Smithie has had some grief, before the trouble the atmosphere was great and he is correct, Vale away support in singing shocker. The chanting and baiting of Hooper and Kelly and the vocal support was fantastic on Saturday.

 

 

 

That's alright in theory and of course there are fixtures where trouble is more likely to happen but I saw fighting after the game at Cheltenham. If you want a fight, you can find a fight anywhere in the country.

[osprey]

'' The chanting and baiting of Hooper and Kelly and the vocal support was fantastic on Saturday.''

 

no problems with vocal support but the ''baiting'' of opposition players isn't going to help in stopping aggressive behavior at football.

 

I really don't get why the vocal support needs to be negative to the opposition - vocal support yes but no need to be aggressive in anyway

 

It doesn't have to be physical aggression that puts off supporters coming to football, sometimes the vocal side is enough as well. - it certainly doesn't create a pleasant atmosphere. Given the opportunity I have moved away from certain groups giving ''vocal support'' in the past but its not always easy when away fans are tightly seated in a small area. I don't go to football to listen to aggressive chanting which can be a catalyst for violence

[smithie]

On the contrary I would think any sane and rational football fan would say it is DEFINITELY the answer for them not to go.

 

What's better for the club?

 

1. The revenue from a few middle-aged fans who want to fight/encourage fighting.

 

2. Or the club losing that revenue but by making the club safer and more appealing for youngsters, encouraging a new generation of younger fans come along. Those fans will (by default of being younger) be fans for longer and bring more money in. They also won't do the same danage to the club's reputation that the violence-advocators do.

 

So, rationally, getting rid of people who think violence in football is fine is entirely rational and entirely sensible. It benefits the club's reputation and brings in more revenue.

 

I think if you're someone who thinks violence at games is justified and you'll somehow be missed - you are sadly and deeply mistaken!

 

It really doesn't matter what goes on in my head does it? Unless you really think that me even thinking differently is a threat!

[darren1810]

'' The chanting and baiting of Hooper and Kelly and the vocal support was fantastic on Saturday.''

 

no problems with vocal support but the ''baiting'' of opposition players isn't going to help in stopping aggressive behavior at football.

 

I really don't get why the vocal support needs to be negative to the opposition - vocal support yes but no need to be aggressive in anyway

 

It doesn't have to be physical aggression that puts off supporters coming to football, sometimes the vocal side is enough as well. - it certainly doesn't create a pleasant atmosphere. Given the opportunity I have moved away from certain groups giving ''vocal support'' in the past but its not always easy when away fans are tightly seated in a small area. I don't go to football to listen to aggressive chanting which can be a catalyst for violence

 

Sorry to disagree Osprey but after seeing Hooper feebly lie down after 10 minutes at Fleetwood and in my opinion didn't fancy it , then i am going to give him some stick.

Kelly also despite one or two wonder strikes was in the main a coward, who else remembers him bottling a tackle and blasting a ball into the Lorne Street ?

The baiting of these 2 players had nothing to do with the aggro. The catalyst was the late equaliser, i guarantee had we seen the game out then it would of been a few clowns on the side streets after the game not in the ground.

[Santa]

'' The chanting and baiting of Hooper and Kelly and the vocal support was fantastic on Saturday.''

 

no problems with vocal support but the ''baiting'' of opposition players isn't going to help in stopping aggressive behavior at football.

That was one of the few things that both sets of fans could get together and agree on.

[robf]

It really doesn't matter what goes on in my head does it? Unless you really think that me even thinking differently is a threat!

I'm not attacking people for thinking differently. I'm criticising people who condone violence.

[elav trop 1876]

Trouble at any ground by any one isnt right but is also hard to stop

 

I have never been hit or hit anyone at a football match albeit there has been some close shaves over the years where not looking for it has found me (stoke away,Bolton away Burnden park , Bristol rovers at bath city play off,, even once v a fellow vale fan who took exception to my opinion whilst not even in the conversation,etc etc I could go on).

 

Its something the middle age fan and above has probably grown up with having seen it many times from ours and opposing fans and although not right there is an acceptance(not believing it to be right) that this always has been part of football just less or more fashionable- think with the emergence of the Russian hooligans the trend could be on the up as others want to emulate and or want to be more infamous.

 

The problem is on many varying different levels ,angles, attitudes as football is about passion which will mean different things to different people with varying acceptance of where crossing the line is- personally it should be about supporting your team whilst in the ground, upsetting the opposition players where possible(I'm sure we have all done it), having banter with the other fans but once the game has finished it should stay in the ground.

 

Vale have a reputation which becomes self propelling , when playing wolves in the pre season friendly they bought about 40-50 lads looking for a fight probably because of our fans reputation they thought we must be up for it yet the ones who fight and cause trouble weren't around so they tried to pick on innocent supporters (saw least 2-3 potential instances)-

 

Unfortunately its hard to stop and the crewe game must be high on the policing list as a flash point