Brexit again...

[Jacko51]

Good question, I don't know to be honest.

 

Sums up the Leave position - you simply don't know what will happen.

[Regal Beagle]

There is a difference between a lie and an inaccurate prediction.

 

Sorry mate, you have an interesting moral code. I can't look past any politician blatantly lying whether it's Johnson, Corbyn or anyone else and I don't care whose "side" they are on. I'm disappointed you feel you can happily look past such dishonesty - I thought you were a better man than that but it seems I was wrong.

 

Speak for yourself. Don't tar everyone with the same brush. This is not me being holier than thou - it is a FACT!

 

If I couldn't look past such dishonesty then I would not be able to take a side in politics.

 

You seem more than happy to look past the many remainer lies?

[Regal Beagle]

Sums up the Leave position - you simply don't know what will happen.

 

I'll accept that but by that logic we do know what the EU is about and we've rejected it. That rejection is based on 40+ years of experience within it, so how do explain that?

[Jacko51]

Did the remain side base their campaign on how **** the EU is? No. What about all the scaremongering predictions for after the vote should we defy the powers that be? They didn't come true.

 

See my post above. There is a difference between a downright lie and an incorrect prediction.

 

The uncertainty will be unpleasant, not brexit itself. Brexit itself will be glorious.

 

Define glorious.

[Jacko51]

If I couldn't look past such dishonesty then I would not be able to take a side in politics.

 

You seem more than happy to look past the many remainer lies?

 

Tell me a lie the Remainers said - and I mean a lie, not something that they predicted would happen but it didn't. Tell me something that ranks alongside Johnson totally careless handling of the truth throughout his career. If that man told me it was Monday I'd have to check the calendar.

[Regal Beagle]

See my post above. There is a difference between a downright lie and an incorrect prediction.

 

Define glorious.

 

I can accept that my own bias plays a part in my support for a particular political movement.

 

You seem to completely deny that you have any bias. When leave do it, it's a downright lie, when remain do it, it's an incorrect prediction?

 

I'm admitting my side were dishonest, why can't you admit your side was?

[Jacko51]

I'll accept that but by that logic we do know what the EU is about and we've rejected it. That rejection is based on 40+ years of experience within it, so how do explain that?

 

Britain is considerably better off now than it was 40 years ago.

[Fosse69]

I suppose it is, but is that because we're one big happy family or because most of the countries are either bankrupt or close enough to it that they can't afford a war?

Because they are happy with the four freedoms, but we did not manage freedom of movement for jobs, only now are we trying to find out who deserves to live here permanently.

[Fosse69]

Good question, I don't know to be honest. I would guess the best judge will be public opinion after a reasonable amount of time for Brexit to be measured. But then again that's what we have measured the success of the EU on and many people have claimed that the public cannot be trusted to make a decision based on their opinions.

 

I don't think there is a single measurement such as whether or not the economy has grown to a certain level, or whether immigration is down (I've said before on that one that we need to have a proper immigration debate once we've left).

So you don't believe the economy has been managed the last few years. What does the Govt do?

[Jacko51]

I can accept that my own bias plays a part in my support for a particular political movement.

 

You seem to completely deny that you have any bias. When leave do it, it's a downright lie, when remain do it, it's an incorrect prediction?

 

I'm admitting my side were dishonest, why can't you admit your side was?

 

My "side" as you call it wasn't dishonest in the way that Leave was. The red bus is the prime example. The invasion of 75 million Turks. These were stated as facts and they are just two examples. Remain was more incompetent than dishonest. It failed to sell the benefits of the EU. Perhaps if they had made up a few bogus numbers they might have been more successful.

 

I may be biased but I'm not blind.

[Regal Beagle]

My "side" as you call it wasn't dishonest in the way that Leave was. The red bus is the prime example. The invasion of 75 million Turks. These were stated as facts and they are just two examples. Remain was more incompetent than dishonest. It failed to sell the benefits of the EU. Perhaps if they had made up a few bogus numbers they might have been more successful.

 

I may be biased but I'm not blind.

 

Would you consider George Osbournes claim that every house in Britain will be £4,300 worse off if we vote leave to be a lie? How about his claim that we would need an emergency budget upon voting leave? How about the vast majority of economic predictions made by the treasury upon a leave vote being returned?

 

The union breaking up? That was a lie

A hard irish border or a reversal of the good friday agreement? That was a lie

How about the Cameron/Obama threats that we'd be at the back of the queue for a trade deal? lie.

Brexit caused a spike in crimes against non UK nationals? lie.

Nick Clegg saying that the result will be final and must be respected? lie

The leave side were brainwashed by lies? lie

We didn't know what we voted for? lie

Leave is in anyway linked to racism? lie

 

Remain and Leave are both liars, it's up to everyone to read the information and make a judgement on the truth for themselves. It's what I've done, and it's clearly what you have done whether or not you can see it or are willing to admit it.

 

And furthermore - Turkey were in the process of applying for EU membership, that was not a lie.

[Paul6754]

There were a lot of lies. Luckily we saw through most of them and the sensible option won.

 

So Regal, I'll ask you this again and perhaps you may reply this time. "What lies did the remain side campaign on, what lies formed the absolute center of the Remain campaign"? I can answer it for you if you want me to.

 

In the run up to the 2015 General Election one of Cameron's major campaign promises was to hold a Referendum on membership of the EU and he stayed true to his word, pity Boris and Farage couldn't have been so truthful.

[Regal Beagle]

Britain is considerably better off now than it was 40 years ago.

 

Possibly. I'm not trying to claim we were better off 40 years ago.

 

The EU doesn't work for us today because of the way it has changed in those 40 years.

[Regal Beagle]

So Regal, I'll ask you this again and perhaps you may reply this time. "What lies did the remain side campaign on, what lies formed the absolute center of the Remain campaign"? I can answer it for you if you want me to.

 

In the run up to the 2015 General Election one of Cameron's major campaign promises was to hold a Referendum on membership of the EU and he stayed true to his word, pity Boris and Farage couldn't have been so truthful.

 

I've just posted a list for you if you want to go and check it out.

 

Please note that the list is not exhaustive. I can't write all the remain lies out though without risking serious RSI.

[Paul6754]

I've just posted a list for you if you want to go and check it out.

 

Please note that the list is not exhaustive. I can't write all the remain lies out though without risking serious RSI.

 

Please write them out.