Brexit again...

[mr.hobblesworth]

I'm not giving her a free pass because some racist idiots on twitter sent her some disgusting abuse.

 

I disagree strongly with her politics and actually don't think she has the mental capacity to be anywhere near parliament never mind the Government, god forbid.

 

The most non racist thing I can do is to treat her as I would treat any one of her peers. If there was a white Labour MP who consistently made gaffes and had hilariously bad interviews, I'd happily criticise them.

 

I said the same over the Sterling thing. I am not going to treat black people differently because there are other people in this world that treat them badly. I will treat them like I treat everyone else. I'll judge footballers on their footballing ability and politicians on their ability to be coherent.

 

Your (and others') references and criticism of her are totally disproportionate and I believe race is a significant factor in this (as it was in the BBC's treatment of her on QT last week and as it is in the case of Sadiq Khan). Anyway, I'm clogging up the thread so I'll leave it there.

[Jacko51]

Who are you on about?

 

Literally could be anyone on either side.

 

The one who has twice been sacked for lying.

[Regal Beagle]

Your (and others') references and criticism of her are totally disproportionate and I believe race is a significant factor in this (as it was in the BBC's treatment of her on QT last week and as it is in the case of Sadiq Khan). Anyway, I'm clogging up the thread so I'll leave it there.

 

Totally disproportionate to what exactly?

 

My criticism is not disproportionate. Unless you are saying that I criticise left wing political views more than right wing political views, in which case you are correct.

[Regal Beagle]

The one who has twice been sacked for lying.

 

Jeremy Corbyn was caught on live TV lying last month and many people want him to run the country [in to the ground].

 

Apologies to Mr H there if he feels I'm being racist to old white men.

[Jacko51]

Jeremy Corbyn was caught on live TV lying last month and many people want him to run the country [in to the ground].

 

Apologies to Mr H there if he feels I'm being racist to old white men.

 

So was Corbyn sacked? No. So I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about Boris Johnson who was sacked by The Times for fabricating stories. He then went to the Torygraph where he continued to fabricate stories about the EU but wasn't sacked from there of course. He was then sacked as Shadow Arts Minister when he told Michael Howard that tabloid stories about an affair which had resulted in two abortions were a pack of lies. Proof of the allegations was provided, Johnson was asked to resign, he wouldn't so he was sacked for dishonesty.

 

This is the sort of bloke who was making all sorts of promises about Brexit. Johnson has no concept of what the truth is and has lied for a living.

 

PS. Just for clarity, I have no desire for Corbyn to run the country.

[Regal Beagle]

Not at all. Simply an attempt to get Brexiteers to admit that leaving the EU will not be the bed of roses they promised or why would they object to a repetition of what happened when we joined in '74.

 

 

 

Finally I get a Leaver to admit that things will not be hunky dory when we leave but that the waters may be choppy for a few* years.

 

 

 

So the people who suffer as a result of these choppy economic waters which you now admit will happen are supposed to be happy because they have regained their sovereignty? How exactly will they feel when they have lost their job or found their cost of living rising and someone says to them, "don't worry lad, we have our sovereignty back". And don't forget that we are constantly told that a lot of the 17 million who voted leave had never voted before - they clearly didn't give a toss about sovereignty did they when it came to electing their own government.

 

*How many is a few?

 

Depends on the competency of our Government and whether or not Parliament stops trying to delay, block or reverse the people's decision.

 

We can't repeat 74 because we've already voted, like I said.

 

I've admitted in this thread many times that the uncertainty of Brexit will cause teething problems. People are going to suffer in the short term unfortunately and that is unavoidable, I hope it is as quick and minimal as possible. But long term, we will be significantly better off making our own decisions and trading on behalf of ourselves. Less people will suffer long term, that is the justification for leaving.

 

I don't really think it is a legitimate argument to say "well we're in this **** situation but getting out of it will not be easy so lets just stay"

 

It is difficult, no sensible person has denied that.

[Regal Beagle]

So was Corbyn sacked? No. So I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about Boris Johnson who was sacked by The Times for fabricating stories. He then went to the Torygraph where he continued to fabricate stories about the EU but wasn't sacked from there of course. He was then sacked as Shadow Arts Minister when he told Michael Howard that tabloid stories about an affair which had resulted in two abortions were a pack of lies. Proof of the allegations was provided, Johnson was asked to resign, he wouldn't so he was sacked for dishonesty.

 

This is the sort of bloke who was making all sorts of promises about Brexit. Johnson has no concept of what the truth is and has lied for a living.

 

PS. Just for clarity, I have no desire for Corbyn to run the country.

 

Anyone who engages in political debate is a hypocrite. They all lie. We were lied to by the remain side just as much as the leave side yet it's conveniently forgotten because it fits your agenda.

 

I can happily look past whether Boris lied about an abortion or not because he's on my side. Exactly the same as anyone who can overlook Corbyn's stupid woman lie, or his serial terrorist tea party lies, his graveside wreath laying lie.

 

Same as Mr H can overlook Diane's lies when she says she's read this report or that report, he can overlook her sheer incompetency because he aligns with her view points or because doing so will confirm his own biases.

 

I do the same, you do the same, we all do the same. So lets take this holier than thou thing off the table and stop pretending that leave won because of lies and not because of the overwhelming evidence that the EU is a disaster.

[Fosse69]

How do we measure whether Brexit is worth it?

[JohnJames]

Let me put it another way, if you’re over 50 and voted leave you are a selfish, ignorant ***** who has made their children, grandchildren etc’s lives much more difficult.

 

And if you are under 50?

[Fosse69]

because of the overwhelming evidence that the EU is a disaster.

What evidence is this? Peace in Western Europe is a massive success.

[Regal Beagle]

How do we measure whether Brexit is worth it?

Good question, I don't know to be honest. I would guess the best judge will be public opinion after a reasonable amount of time for Brexit to be measured. But then again that's what we have measured the success of the EU on and many people have claimed that the public cannot be trusted to make a decision based on their opinions.

 

I don't think there is a single measurement such as whether or not the economy has grown to a certain level, or whether immigration is down (I've said before on that one that we need to have a proper immigration debate once we've left).

[Jacko51]

 

I've admitted in this thread many times that the uncertainty of Brexit will cause teething problems. People are going to suffer in the short term unfortunately and that is unavoidable, I hope it is as quick and minimal as possible. But long term, we will be significantly better off making our own decisions and trading on behalf of ourselves. Less people will suffer long term, that is the justification for leaving.

 

At my age, I would prefer a little more certainty than these vague promises if "short term" and "long term". I also don't see that saying "getting out will be difficult but it will be worth it in the end" bears any relationship to what we were promised in the Referendum. We were promised a bed of roses and you are now saying that in the short term it will very likely be a bed of nettles. I want to know how long the nettles will last. No one will say. Other than Rees Mogg who said “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time,” And we know that the likes of Rees Mogg will not suffer the economic consequences of the short/long term nettles.

 

You say the suffering from Brexit is unavoidable. Not true as you well know. And if the Leave side had been honest in saying that the effects of Brexit are going to be unpleasant economically do you genuinely think you would have won the vote? Yes lads and lasses, it's going to be sh** for a while but don't worry, we'll have our sovereignty back. That is the truth of the Leave message but they never said it did they?

[Regal Beagle]

What evidence is this? Peace in Western Europe is a massive success.

 

I suppose it is, but is that because we're one big happy family or because most of the countries are either bankrupt or close enough to it that they can't afford a war?

[Jacko51]

Anyone who engages in political debate is a hypocrite. They all lie. We were lied to by the remain side just as much as the leave side yet it's conveniently forgotten because it fits your agenda.

 

There is a difference between a lie and an inaccurate prediction.

 

I can happily look past whether Boris lied about an abortion or not because he's on my side. Exactly the same as anyone who can overlook Corbyn's stupid woman lie, or his serial terrorist tea party lies, his graveside wreath laying lie.

 

Sorry mate, you have an interesting moral code. I can't look past any politician blatantly lying whether it's Johnson, Corbyn or anyone else and I don't care whose "side" they are on. I'm disappointed you feel you can happily look past such dishonesty - I thought you were a better man than that but it seems I was wrong.

 

I do the same, you do the same, we all do the same.

 

Speak for yourself. Don't tar everyone with the same brush. This is not me being holier than thou - it is a FACT!

[Regal Beagle]

At my age, I would prefer a little more certainty than these vague promises if "short term" and "long term". I also don't see that saying "getting out will be difficult but it will be worth it in the end" bears any relationship to what we were promised in the Referendum. We were promised a bed of roses and you are now saying that in the short term it will very likely be a bed of nettles. I want to know how long the nettles will last. No one will say. Other than Rees Mogg who said “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time,” And we know that the likes of Rees Mogg will not suffer the economic consequences of the short/long term nettles.

 

You say the suffering from Brexit is unavoidable. Not true as you well know. And if the Leave side had been honest in saying that the effects of Brexit are going to be unpleasant economically do you genuinely think you would have won the vote? Yes lads and lasses, it's going to be sh** for a while but don't worry, we'll have our sovereignty back. That is the truth of the Leave message but they never said it did they?

 

Did the remain side base their campaign on how **** the EU is? No. What about all the scaremongering predictions for after the vote should we defy the powers that be? They didn't come true.

 

The uncertainty will be unpleasant, not brexit itself. Brexit itself will be glorious.