Closed thread on Castro

[geosname]

If a society had a dictator imposed on them who did the most amazing perfect job would there be elections? I say yes cos democracy gives us the right to make the wrong decisions..if it were Britain we'd probably vote him/her out to stop him/her getting too c0cky :)

 

Have you ever known a human being that was perfect? is what you call perfect for you perfect for me? Is your ideal society exactly the same as mine?

A democratically elected government has to try to please the people a dictator can please themselves.

[eh up nah]

You ever been to Cuba Bea?

 

I base my opinion on Castro on my experience of visiting Cuba.

 

The majority of the people living there live in absolute squalor. Crippling poverty, terrible living conditions. Get off the tourist trail in Havannah (literally by one street)and its there for all to see. The buildings are still the originals from Spanish collonial times. Crumbling and rotten. The people qeueue for rations and armed guards patrol the street.

 

They have nothing.

 

You're also constantly fed the stuff about how Castro and Guevara overthrough the evil Batista regime and now everythings great. Thats always a giveaway for me that all is not as its presented to you.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Yes I would, you cant get it right for everyone. Thalidomide did a great job controlling morning sickness, if the news of what else it did was suppressed would it have been banned? would anyone connect the dots nationally? [just an example]..... a free press should be the eyes, ears and voice of the people [im not saying it is], sometimes it does try... the simple fact is that the people need to make the decision that the government are doing a good job, without comparative information its almost impossible to do that

 

Totally agree

 

In other words there is a price to be paid for having a free press..a price worth paying.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

[

Have you ever known a human being that was perfect? is what you call perfect for you perfect for me? Is your ideal society exactly the same as mine?

A democratically elected government has to try to please the people a dictator can please themselves.

 

Hence I started my post with "If"..what constitutes "perfect" is irrelevant to the question asked

 

What "if" a dictator is pleasing everyone? He/She makes decisions without recourse to a parliament or an electorate or a judiciary etc and gets it all "right" ? Is democracy so important that we should allow it to remove a dictator in favour of something "inferior"? I say yes cos democracy isn't about getting it right, it's about having the right to choose.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

You ever been to Cuba Bea?

 

I base my opinion on Castro on my experience of visiting Cuba.

 

The majority of the people living there live in absolute squalor. Crippling poverty, terrible living conditions. Get off the tourist trail in Havannah (literally by one street)and its there for all to see. The buildings are still the originals from Spanish collonial times. Crumbling and rotten. The people qeueue for rations and armed guards patrol the street.

 

They have nothing.

 

.

 

Is that all cos of Castro or partly cos of the way other countries (mainly the US) have treated Cuba? Surely it's a mixed bag of causes with Castro being a very significant part of it though.

[geosname]

[

 

Hence I started my post with "If"..what constitutes "perfect" is irrelevant to the question asked

 

What "if" a dictator is pleasing everyone? He/She makes decisions without recourse to a parliament or an electorate or a judiciary etc and gets it all "right" ? Is democracy so important that we should allow it to remove a dictator in favour of something "inferior"? I say yes cos democracy isn't about getting it right, it's about having the right to choose.

 

If god [whichever one you choose] cant please everyone what chance a mere mortal?

The more important point.... democracy is very important simply because [as you state] its about having a choice not what you choose

[geosname]

Totally agree

 

In other words there is a price to be paid for having a free press..a price worth paying.

 

Everything has a price and yes a free press is worth the price... it gives accountability to the people, who pay that price

[Paul6754]

You ever been to Cuba Bea?

 

I base my opinion on Castro on my experience of visiting Cuba.

 

The majority of the people living there live in absolute squalor. Crippling poverty, terrible living conditions. Get off the tourist trail in Havannah (literally by one street)and its there for all to see. The buildings are still the originals from Spanish collonial times. Crumbling and rotten. The people qeueue for rations and armed guards patrol the street.

 

They have nothing.

 

You're also constantly fed the stuff about how Castro and Guevara overthrough the evil Batista regime and now everythings great. Thats always a giveaway for me that all is not as its presented to you.

 

The whole Castro dynasty are self-centered brutal tyrants and murderers who have turned a once thriving island into a place where people are a poor, most live on

 

The sooner the whole clan are gone so that the Cuban people are one again free and can make their own choices the better. The ststement "Cuba has a better health care system than the USA" in an earlier post is truly bizarre.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

If god [whichever one you choose] cant please everyone what chance a mere mortal?

 

Perhaps God chooses not to please everyone..he's not trying to, doesn't want to, wants to see what we do in response? But I digress

 

The more important point.... democracy is very important simply because [as you state] its about having a choice not what you choose

 

Indeed..it gives 'us' power and the choice of how we use it

[eh up nah]

Is that all cos of Castro or partly cos of the way other countries (mainly the US) have treated Cuba? Surely it's a mixed bag of causes with Castro being a very significant part of it though.

 

Definitely ja, I agree.

 

I'm suspecting that the op is blindly praising casto without actually seeing what his actions have helped do to the cuban people.

[Jacko51]

Totally agree.

 

But if they are getting it right do you want a free press that's trying to subvert them for their own ends? My point is a free press isn't some isn't always trying to do good things...if we want a free press we have to accept the down side.

 

If they were getting it all right, who would take notice of anyone trying to subvert them?

[Bea Smith]

You ever been to Cuba Bea?

 

I base my opinion on Castro on my experience of visiting Cuba.

 

The majority of the people living there live in absolute squalor. Crippling poverty, terrible living conditions. Get off the tourist trail in Havannah (literally by one street)and its there for all to see. The buildings are still the originals from Spanish collonial times. Crumbling and rotten. The people qeueue for rations and armed guards patrol the street.

 

They have nothing.

 

You're also constantly fed the stuff about how Castro and Guevara overthrough the evil Batista regime and now everythings great. Thats always a giveaway for me that all is not as its presented to you.

 

 

 

Yes I have, and I would be surprised if you had spent more time there than me - 3 visits including several different areas and resorts not just Havana.

Your description is at best mistaken, at worst another Trump-web site attempt at misinformation to convince those on here (particularly the brainwashed US contingent) only too willing to believe lies.

Poverty, yes- starvation no. Armed guards - absolute fantasy and lies. Its a bit like someone who hates Britain coming here then returning to say 'The people are starving, they rely on food hanbdouts and there are food collection boxes at every supermarket' - a true statement of UK 2016 but as far from presenting the situation as your skewed and biased description.

The fact is that only Barack Obama has made a (belated) effort to restore ties and help the Cuban people the US has made suffer - 9 previous presidenst caused shortages and suffering and still Cuba managed even without US car parts !

I never said Castro was a saint, he had many bad points but compared to Reagan who funded attacks on childrens clinics and hospitals by the Contras in Nicaragua, and let several hundred thousand of his own Americans die of AIDS before mentioning the word in public a single time, I think getting rid of 500 Batista supporters in the 2 years after taking power is relatively benign.

Paul6754s selective stats that there is little internet access mean nothing and is again due to US embargos (did you really think people would not realise that ?) , and if wages are low perhaps he should consider (as he is such an expert on so much) that fixed low rents and other prices may balance this.

 

[eh up nah]

Yes I have, and I would be surprised if you had spent more time there than me - 3 visits including several different areas and resorts not just Havana.

Your description is at best mistaken, at worst another Trump-web site attempt at misinformation to convince those on here (particularly the brainwashed US contingent) only too willing to believe lies.

Poverty, yes- starvation no. Armed guards - absolute fantasy and lies. Its a bit like someone who hates Britain coming here then returning to say 'The people are starving, they rely on food hanbdouts and there are food collection boxes at every supermarket' - a true statement of UK 2016 but as far from presenting the situation as your skewed and biased description.

The fact is that only Barack Obama has made a (belated) effort to restore ties and help the Cuban people the US has made suffer - 9 previous presidenst caused shortages and suffering and still Cuba managed even without US car parts !

I never said Castro was a saint, he had many bad points but compared to Reagan who funded attacks on childrens clinics and hospitals by the Contras in Nicaragua, and let several hundred thousand of his own Americans die of AIDS before mentioning the word in public a single time, I think getting rid of 500 Batista supporters in the 2 years after taking power is relatively benign.

Paul6754s selective stats that there is little internet access mean nothing and is again due to US embargos (did you really think people would not realise that ?) , and if wages are low perhaps he should consider (as he is such an expert on so much) that fixed low rents and other prices may balance this.

 

Pure propaganda, which sadly is becoming the norm in what comes from the mouths and pens of nearly all the US-based posts on here lately.

As well as the odd anti-Semitic outburst from one Texas based charmer recently that has been removed from this thread, but if anyone wants a screen shot of it, please pm me and I will be glad to provide so you can see who and what you are dealing with.

 

I've only been once bud. I know what I saw though and I'm not lying. No reason at all for me to be lying about Cuba. Armed guards were on the streets. Fact.

 

I felt genuine pity when I was there.

[Paul6754]

Yes I have, and I would be surprised if you had spent more time there than me - 3 visits including several different areas and resorts not just Havana.

Your description is at best mistaken, at worst another Trump-web site attempt at misinformation to convince those on here (particularly the brainwashed US contingent) only too willing to believe lies.

Poverty, yes- starvation no. Armed guards - absolute fantasy and lies. Its a bit like someone who hates Britain coming here then returning to say 'The people are starving, they rely on food hanbdouts and there are food collection boxes at every supermarket' - a true statement of UK 2016 but as far from presenting the situation as your skewed and biased description.

The fact is that only Barack Obama has made a (belated) effort to restore ties and help the Cuban people the US has made suffer - 9 previous presidenst caused shortages and suffering and still Cuba managed even without US car parts !

I never said Castro was a saint, he had many bad points but compared to Reagan who funded attacks on childrens clinics and hospitals by the Contras in Nicaragua, and let several hundred thousand of his own Americans die of AIDS before mentioning the word in public a single time, I think getting rid of 500 Batista supporters in the 2 years after taking power is relatively benign.

Paul6754s selective stats that there is little internet access mean nothing and is again due to US embargos (did you really think people would not realise that ?) , and if wages are low perhaps he should consider (as he is such an expert on so much) that fixed low rents and other prices may balance this.

 

Pure propaganda, which sadly is becoming the norm in what comes from the mouths and pens of nearly all the US-based posts on here lately.

As well as the odd anti-Semitic outburst from one Texas based charmer recently that has been removed from this thread, but if anyone wants a screen shot of it, please pm me and I will be glad to provide so you can see who and what you are dealing with.

 

Unfortunatley Bea it's the truth, how well could you live on 18GBP/month. Internet access is just one example how Castro manipulates his people, the USA cannot prevent Cuban's from internet access just like it cannot prevent the Russians, Cuban's simply cannot afford computers or access to the WWW.

[Bea Smith]

I've only been once bud. I know what I saw though and I'm not lying. No reason at all for me to be lying about Cuba. Armed guards were on the streets. Fact.

 

I felt genuine pity when I was there.

 

 

I am not in the habit of lying about what I saw either, and wonder if you are talking about a selected street or a special security occasion, perhaps you would care to expand on whether this was every street in every town you visited, a regular occurance or once-off etc. or are 'armed guards' in your description perhaps just the same as 'armed police' in the USA where you could also use the same term.

 

Did you see any acts of brutality or repression - I didn't, nor even aggression of any sort. Maybe I should have gone a bit further north and across a short distance of sea to see some real 'armed guards' in uniform gunning down unarmed black youths.