Tax haven info released > GM Foods

[Warren]

Another concept about squeezing tax havens too much. Put out of business British ex pat territories and up may pop some worse ones. I have in mind Russia or China for example where they would be state backed and pack the weapons to see off all investigations including using assassins. In other words the money launderers would move from places of difficult regulatory enforcement and detection of crime to impossible ones to regulate and enforce.

[whotobeakiller]

I am a counter fraud practitioner and so committed to dealing with people, organizations and governments involved in criminality and money laundering. Therefore the drive to bring havens in to the open is commendable and last nights Panorama was interesting. Nonetheless picking on Ian Cameron, born 1932 and died 2010 because he is the father of the PM was in my view completely disrespectful given the evidence available to support the TV show. It was disrespectful because it showed he held a form of share and arrangment now barred, but perfectly lawful in the past. There was almost no worthwhile evidence to justify his mention. And even if he was of interest to the journalist there was a failure to distinguish him in the context of managing tax, which everyone does, and tax evasion and money laundering which are unlawful.

 

I think it is also wrong to look back in to the past with the eyes and views of the present and condemn. When Ian Cameron was in his middle age and making a lot of his wealth there were tax rates as high as 98% in the UK. Even under Thatcher the top tax rate in the 80's was 60%. People were quite entitled to react to the state behaving like a money grabbing criminal and did so in two ways. 1. Emigrate. 2. Avoid.

 

Now higher level tax rates have come down we see in the UK the top 1% of earners paying 33% of income tax. That is pretty good and reasonably fair in my opinion. In the USA the top 1% pay 50% of federal taxes. So it is wrong for people to go round portraying wealthy people as inherently unethical or criminal etc. Most are not.

 

90% of people whom work in the UK have not had a pay rise in 40 years. The top 1% have had rises very year. The top !% should be paying 45% top tax minimum. But what you fail to address is the Corporation tax which mean large Multinationals avoid completely (Through Legal means)

 

The politicians have just awarded themselves another large pay increase and they make the laws that ensure working class people have very little rights when they start a job. And mostly workers whom are on barely a proper living wage. Many people have had their benefits frozen and snctions are hard to avoid even though there is an inadequate supply of jobs due to Multinationals taking advantage of the huge EU labour oversupply which means they pay peanuts and continue to make monstrous profits where most of their taxes are avoided.

 

I would hammer the Big Multinationals for 50% tax once their profits exceed a certain limit...they need bringing down a peg or two. I dont agree also that your 'Big Earners' get to claim for Child benefit when they are in the top %...Digusting

[Warren]

90% of people whom work in the UK have not had a pay rise in 40 years. The top 1% have had rises very year. The top !% should be paying 45% top tax minimum. But what you fail to address is the Corporation tax which mean large Multinationals avoid completely (Through Legal means)

 

The politicians have just awarded themselves another large pay increase and they make the laws that ensure working class people have very little rights when they start a job. And mostly workers whom are on barely a proper living wage. Many people have had their benefits frozen and snctions are hard to avoid even though there is an inadequate supply of jobs due to Multinationals taking advantage of the huge EU labour oversupply which means they pay peanuts and continue to make monstrous profits where most of their taxes are avoided.

 

I would hammer the Big Multinationals for 50% tax once their profits exceed a certain limit...they need bringing down a peg or two. I dont agree also that your 'Big Earners' get to claim for Child benefit when they are in the top %...Digusting

 

As an accountant I am very familiar with corporation tax. In fact I paid more this year than Amazon, so I get the issue. However, corporation tax is a competitive tax regime and company directors, even under the Companies Act 2006, must act in the interests of the company's owners or when a company is failing the creditors. Government is just another stakeholder and by no means the most worthy one.

 

The regime around corporation tax has been changed in the UK and internationally. One issue is the value where income and costs arose and to ensure tax is paid proportionately. Actually, as an accountant who has worked in the retail sector, that is not easy at all. There are multiple fluctuating costs and taxes relating to each container imported etc and these have all arisen in different places. The best retail accounting system in use, remains one that was developed in the 1980's and has been modernized. People are reluctant to change from it.

 

When you talk in language about hitting people, you should reflect that people respond to that. In my case if tax rates go beyond what is worthwhile to me I will simply retire and become economically inactive. If our Scots go off on a tax binge soon as seems likely they will find Zurich and London will take those leaving Edinburgh etc. Working class people are given vast resources in this country - that is a factor in the immigration debate. And they can take control of their own lives through education if they want to move out of their current circumstance. I have been poor in the past, and that is what I did.

[whotobeakiller]

Working class people are given vast resources in this country - that is a factor in the immigration debate. And they can take control of their own lives through education if they want to move out of their current circumstance. I have been poor in the past, and that is what I did.

 

Some are fortunate. Education is a personal boost for confidence but it does not guarantee a high paying job. What is needed in this country at present is a return to focusing on filling skills shortages in trades and this can be done by the government investing in the countries people. That won't happen anytime soon.

 

Many people are not academically orientated...not everyone is academic minded. Your statement has become a worn out cliche. Working class people are not given the basic access to educational or vocational training resources...why do you think the Government have shut down learndirect centres and cut local college course part time funding? People cannot afford to better themselves anymore

[JOHNNYAITCH]

And here's me thinking you'd got off your 'kick Cameron' campaign for a while? Anyway, avoiding tax is not illegal--evasion is!

 

But surely the point is him slamming Jimmy Carr et al for their tax avoidance but now claiming that his dad's tax affairs are a private matter.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

If there is/was a legal way to pay less tax wouldnt most people go for it?

 

Millions do...ISAs, cash in hand, duty free, gift aid etc etc

[stupers]

Millions do...ISAs, cash in hand, duty free, gift aid etc etc

 

Don't forget pensions.........

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Don't forget pensions.........

 

True but they may well eventually pay tax on the pension they receive

 

Capital gains tax allowances, AIA, rent a room relief, mortgage tax relief, 'green car' tax relief..all sorts of ways that millions take advantage of quite legitimately and often for sound reasons...although all should be regularly reviewed.

[stupers]

From my perspective this is nothing particularly new. Even the scale of it isn't particularly shocking. From what I've seen so far, I would say that what is been uncovered could possibly be more serious than tax avoidance which is why HMRC are so interested. People need to be clear that there is a difference between avoidance and evasion. Avoidance is legal, evasion is not. Avoidance has been allowed for decades, and is clearly now a massive business in its own right. It's a difficult area, but we need to tighten loopholes up so it is far more difficult to avoid what you should be paying. I've seen people trying to make a political issue out of this. They need to be careful, there was a government before this one that didn't do much about this issue at all, and in fact the 90s and 00s were the big boom time for this industry.

 

Whilst I said that it's nothing I didn't expect, hearing the news has disappointed me. Paying tax, and paying the appropriate amount is a civic and moral duty. People who actively pursue avenues to avoid paying the tax they are due are skipping their moral and civic duty which is to pay in to the system to help people out who are not so well-off. It is shameful in my opinion, particularly when our tax rates are low already. If everyone was paying in at the levels set, then the government services in the UK would be thriving instead of facing more cuts.

 

I like the Norwegian system where who earns what, and who pays what tax is laid bare to all citizens. The figures speak for themselves then and people can make their own minds up on who's doing what they can, and who has the morals of a sewer rat when it comes to helping out their fellow man.

[Santa]

Ian Cameron wasn't picked on, millions of documents about a number of firms registered in Panama were released at the same time

 

The press in the UK picked up on the Cameron thing as there is a genuine public interest story there.

 

Also, using your personal allowance is quite a bit different to going out of your way to hide millions of pounds you've invested offshore.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Ian Cameron wasn't picked on, millions of documents about a number of firms registered in Panama were released at the same time

 

The press in the UK picked up on the Cameron thing as there is a genuine public interest story there.

 

Also, using your personal allowance is quite a bit different to going out of your way to hide millions of pounds you've invested offshore.

 

But the point isn't about Ian Cameron but about David Cameron going on about Jimmy Carr's legal tax avoidance schemes and how they are immoral but then saying when it comes to his dad's tax affairs it's a "private matter".

 

How come it's OK for him to comment on someone's tax affairs but not OK for people to comment on his dad's? Seems like double standards.

[stupers]

Ian Cameron wasn't picked on, millions of documents about a number of firms registered in Panama were released at the same time

 

The press in the UK picked up on the Cameron thing as there is a genuine public interest story there.

 

Also, using your personal allowance is quite a bit different to going out of your way to hide millions of pounds you've invested offshore.

 

Hoping either Channel 4 or Sky pick this week to show the episode of the Simpsons when Krusty the Klown gets busted for Tax Fraud. :D

[For Us All]

There seems to be one or two knives out for 'Call me Dave' at the moment but it's no wonder after recent events.Still,it gives 'Georgey Boy' and Jezza a rest?

[Santa]

But the point isn't about Ian Cameron but about David Cameron going on about Jimmy Carr's legal tax avoidance schemes and how they are immoral but then saying when it comes to his dad's tax affairs it's a "private matter".

 

How come it's OK for him to comment on someone's tax affairs but not OK for people to comment on his dad's? Seems like double standards.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. You're arguing the same point as I am.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I wasn't disagreeing with you. You're arguing the same point as I am.

 

Fairynuff..great minds etc:)