£10 charge to visit A&E?

[geosname]

Ok, we see the term 'business eye' as meaning different things. But don't you think business means profit first because if you don't then you have a very generous and forgiving view of some of the top businessmen in the world. There are not many Bill Gates around, but plenty of grabbing managers nd companies - Starbucks is another beautiful and wonderful company who found a way to pay no UK tax for several years - tax that should have been used to build hospitals and schools and care for elderly people and those who are reduced to begging at food banks.

 

If something like the post office or public transport can break even, fine.... if not then it should be subsidised by our own government, even if it means some taxes on things like betting for example which used to be taxed but is no longer. Perhaps if Cameron had not given a BILLION pounds to a totally corrupt and illegal Ukraine regime, then we could afford better services.

 

It seems this government, and Blair's labour one before it can find plenty of money for wars we should keep out of but struggle to provide the proper care, transport facilities, reasonable fuel costs and the like for honest hard-working people in the UK. The truth is that we can afford a proper and better NHS if the money us not wasted elsewhere.

 

Incidentally, whilst not agreeing with some things that UKIP come up with, it is hard to see what is wrong with restricting completely free use of the NHS to those who come here from countries that have a reciprocal arrangement for UK citizens to have the same treatment free if visiting their countries. Nothing to do with race at all.

 

I dont see the NHS as a business I see it more as a national treasure, therefore the business eye I would use would not be the same as the one I would use on a corner shop, retail chain, bank etc.

The NHS in all conscience should not, must not be run to make profit, as said previously the best outcome possible would be breakeven.

Is public transport owned by the public or just for the public use?... we could argue which it should be but given past experiences of nationalised industries it would be difficult to make a very convincing case.

it is hard to see what is wrong with restricting completely free use of the NHS to those who come here from countries that have a reciprocal arrangement for UK citizens to have the same treatment free if visiting their countries.

No argument from me

[Paul6754]

As regards pharmaceuticals, the major manufacturers are the same here as in the UK and as drugs for most people are covered by private insurance or medicare, the big insurance companies drive the cost down by negotiating the price they pay. So there is no truth in the suggestion that drugs in the UK are cheaper than here.

 

And as businessman yourself, I wonder why you have such antagonism to "profit making"? Just curious. ;)

 

You appear to live in a different country to me healthcare wise. I came to the USA in 2000, since then the cost of Health Insurance has increased out of all proportion, co-pays have gone up and policies with deductibles have been introduced, very few private American companies, even the mega corporations, offer HMO's (everything paid for except a small co-pay) these days, the only employers that do are Federal, State and town government which has led to resentment. If you have an 80/20 plan where the consumer pays 20% of all care upto a certain limit, try finding out the most inexpensive provider for an MRI or a CAT scan or where the best value for money hospital is to get surgery 'cause it's a beaurocratic nightmare although because of Obamacare much transparency has recently been introduced.

 

You're right in that healthcare in the USA is excellent, particularly around the major cities, but the costs are escalating out of control.

 

It is well known that Americans pay a premium for drugs compared to other countries, many people in the USA go to Canada and Mexico for their drugs due to cost and many people choose a generic over a better new drug because of mega high cost co-pays. The NHS in the UK chooses not to make certain new drugs available due to cost and have more power to negotiate the price of drugs down than individual Insurance companies. Many world pharmaceutical companies choose to locate their R&D operations in the USA so as to offset this cost against their USA profit.

 

In my eyes the NHS is a national treasure and should be protected at all costs, my aging mum and dad who do not have private Health Insurance have recently received excellent care via the NHS for a mini stroke and cancer respectively. I debate with my wife the tax burden in the UK vs USA, Health Insurance/co-pays/deductibles to my mind are the same as a tax 'cause you have to have and pay them and they add up. I certainly wouldn't like to reside in the USA and not have health Insurance, its reported that the major cause of bankruptcies in the USA are healthcare bills so a hospital will come after you to recoup its cost.

[kevin_struggles]

How would the other hospitals be funded?

 

I wouldnt suggest that... its far too obvious

 

I have no idea, how are they funded in the rest of the world?

 

I think there are serious problems in this country when anyone who suggests people actually, shock horror, take responsibility for themselves rather than spending their lives with their hand out is regarded as fringe.

 

The NHS is neglecting people to death but its fine just chuck some more tax payers money at it nobody cares, it seems mediocrity is acceptable in modern Britain.

 

I remember when British people had pride in themselves, now we have the jeremy kyle generation running everything via social media.

 

Anyone familiar with the story of Nero fiddling while Rome burned will perhaps understand my thoughts.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

If they are not the same in terms of scope and funding they are different.....obviously

 

I never said they were the same..I said that the aim is the same..universal state/taxation funded health care free at the point of need

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Well my father died before his time (65) because nobody in the bloated useless mess of a health service bothered to tell his GP they had found cancer when they scanned him, he died two rot hree years later (I forget which) after receiving no treatment because he was never referred to an oncologist by his GP. In that time his cancer had spread unchecked throughout his body. We only found out he had cancer two weeks before he died, he saw an oncologist one week before he died. Unfortunatley due to the pressure from tumours on his brain he want aware of what he was being told so I guess technically he never knew he had cancer. The hospital did though, for three years and did nowt.

 

I read that with great sadness..undoubtedly sometimes, maybe too often, the system fails

 

However I could counter that with the rapid treatment that my sister received for her brain tumour, it gave her an extra 3 years of life (33 when she died) although she was never going to survive it. The disgnosis was rapid as was treatment and after care..but that in no way makes up for when the system fails but for me the NHS shone brightly in her case

 

The NHS is full of administrators and managers who simply wouldnt exist in a privately run company because they dont add anything. Doesnt stop them from mismanaging and losing stuff though, too many cooks.

 

I do agree that the 'system' is burdened by too much management, too much non-clinical regulation, too much admin..making the system more complex than it needs to be and diverting funds away from medical care

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I propose we have a similar set up to America, where the service provided is much better.

 

I dont want to pay into a system where I have no choice even if the service is poor and I dont wnat to have to pay twice, by which I meant pay for the NHS through my tax and pay privately myself.

 

I want choice and I want a better standard of care than I am receiving currently.

 

Do you object to paying into a system for others to receive care that they cannot afford to pay for themselves?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Private health plans would go through the roof if the NHS was disbanded

 

Why? there would be much competiton for our healthcare business?

 

Just like utility bills have gone through the roof,

 

Cos of lack of competition, green taxes and the increased cost of the raw materials

 

petrol prices went through the roof,

 

Mainly cos of govt taxation

 

 

Err no it hasn't for the majoirty

 

I advocate the NHS but if the argument for it is to be won it must be a solid argument not supported by at best misleading 'facts'

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Yet its a fact that the only party who has actually privatised any part of the NHS is....Labour

 

Anyone who believes differently is still using their grandparents vote because they still think Labour represent the workers

 

I belive the figure is something like 5% of NHS servcies outsourced to private companies by the last Labout govt..1% by this Conservative govt. No actual privatisation of the NHS has taken place.

 

and it was labour that saddled the NHS with the PFI burden that we and the NHS will ne paying for for decades

 

Labour sees the NHS and it's users and workers as vote winners and cynically manipulates it for that reason.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Notice the reporter is of Indian descent. Possibly able to afford private healthcare anyway, and just one of many ex migrants who will vote against UKIP.

 

Kailish Chand was a GP in Greater Manchester and a deputy chair of the BMA. He is a tireless campaigner for the NHS and indeed was awarded an OBE and other awards in recognition of this. He arrived in Britain in 1978 and worked as a GP in the NHS having trained in India.

 

But if you want to judge him by his name and ethnicity.....

[JOHNNYAITCH]

The honest hardworking British person whose family has been here for generations. Next question.

 

So not yours then? Isn't your dad from Greece?

 

How many genarations?

 

So not the "dishonest"?

 

WHo defines hard working?

[carl]

Kailish Chand was a GP in Greater Manchester and a deputy chair of the BMA. He is a tireless campaigner for the NHS and indeed was awarded an OBE and other awards in recognition of this. He arrived in Britain in 1978 and worked as a GP in the NHS having trained in India.

 

But if you want to judge him by his name and ethnicity.....

 

The best people to Judge the NHS are the people who rely year, on year, on their services. Labour are just beyond belief, they created the culture which undermined quality standards of care and now crow on about saving the NHS. The cuts to public services have gone way over the line where the tories are concerned, but lets not forget the NHS is in the state it is not because of a 'so called ageing population', but because huge swaths of immigrants use the services without any restrictions, and the fact that many targets are met in sacrifice to people getting the care they need.

 

People on this forum entertaining private healthcare really do need to take a raincheck and realise that if we go down that route we could be signing the death warrant of thousands of poorer people. The NHS has been there for generations, and I believe that they have done a fairly good job, otherwise you, me everyone on this forum would possibly not be here. I realise there are exceptions where quality care is not met and I know personally of such matters and we really do need to take a good look at whether it is feasible to keep letting Nurses and frontline staff with language barriers such a pivotal role in the NHS. We need English speaking Doctors and Nurses, we need top clinicians responsible for budgetary decisions and not management who have no clue about the clinical fundamentals.

[For Us All]

Labours election campaign will target the NHS and the current A&E crisis to try and discredit the Tories but they really have nothing to crow about.

I give you Mid-Staffs scandal and the Labour run Welsh NHS as examples.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-29719364

[geosname]

The best people to Judge the NHS are the people who rely year, on year, on their services. Labour are just beyond belief, they created the culture which undermined quality standards of care and now crow on about saving the NHS. The cuts to public services have gone way over the line where the tories are concerned, but lets not forget the NHS is in the state it is not because of a 'so called ageing population', but because huge swaths of immigrants use the services without any restrictions, and the fact that many targets are met in sacrifice to people getting the care they need.

 

People on this forum entertaining private healthcare really do need to take a raincheck and realise that if we go down that route we could be signing the death warrant of thousands of poorer people. The NHS has been there for generations, and I believe that they have done a fairly good job, otherwise you, me everyone on this forum would possibly not be here. I realise there are exceptions where quality care is not met and I know personally of such matters and we really do need to take a good look at whether it is feasible to keep letting Nurses and frontline staff with language barriers such a pivotal role in the NHS. We need English speaking Doctors and Nurses, we need top clinicians responsible for budgetary decisions and not management who have no clue about the clinical fundamentals.

 

You have just thrown the NHS into total meltdown.... if you take out everyone who isnt "our own people" there wouldnt be enough staff to deal with chiropody problems... let alone A&E conditions... not so long ago we had to beg nurses and doctors to come from the east because we didnt have enough and we couldnt train enough... the NHS is an unruly beast but getting rid of 25% of the front line staff will make in useless... finding english speaking [as you put it] docs and nurses is easy.... head hunt them from english speaking countries with very attractive pay deals, because they wont come otherwise, which will create a disparity that workers here would not accept [creating a different class]... so not only would the newbys have to be paid more the old hands would have to get large increases to create equality

[Tone]

You appear to live in a different country to me healthcare wise. I came to the USA in 2000, since then the cost of Health Insurance has increased out of all proportion, co-pays have gone up and policies with deductibles have been introduced, very few private American companies, even the mega corporations, offer HMO's (everything paid for except a small co-pay) these days, the only employers that do are Federal, State and town government which has led to resentment. If you have an 80/20 plan where the consumer pays 20% of all care upto a certain limit, try finding out the most inexpensive provider for an MRI or a CAT scan or where the best value for money hospital is to get surgery 'cause it's a beaurocratic nightmare although because of Obamacare much transparency has recently been introduced.

 

You're right in that healthcare in the USA is excellent, particularly around the major cities, but the costs are escalating out of control.

 

It is well known that Americans pay a premium for drugs compared to other countries, many people in the USA go to Canada and Mexico for their drugs due to cost and many people choose a generic over a better new drug because of mega high cost co-pays. The NHS in the UK chooses not to make certain new drugs available due to cost and have more power to negotiate the price of drugs down than individual Insurance companies. Many world pharmaceutical companies choose to locate their R&D operations in the USA so as to offset this cost against their USA profit.

 

In my eyes the NHS is a national treasure and should be protected at all costs, my aging mum and dad who do not have private Health Insurance have recently received excellent care via the NHS for a mini stroke and cancer respectively. I debate with my wife the tax burden in the UK vs USA, Health Insurance/co-pays/deductibles to my mind are the same as a tax 'cause you have to have and pay them and they add up. I certainly wouldn't like to reside in the USA and not have health Insurance, its reported that the major cause of bankruptcies in the USA are healthcare bills so a hospital will come after you to recoup its cost.

 

I live in the same country, but in a different state and almost certainly with a different health plan.

 

Have your costs gone sky-high in the last few years? If so, thank Obama for that. The only trouble we have experienced, thankfully, if that our family doctor (GP) is cutting back on time spent and some of the services he offers seem to be struggling to cope. He has told me that they are eearning less each year for what they do.

 

As regards, scans MRIs, etc., our insurance plan covers all that (in network). We pay $20 to visit the GP and $40 for a specialist. Our treatement is 80/20 but last year my wife paid the maximum of $2,000 in co-pay and so everything after that, including prescriptions, were fully paid for by insurance.

 

You will have heard in the news about all the folks who have lost their healthcare plans (Obama lied about that, it's on the record0 and have had to seek alternatives at higher cost or lower coverage sine the Unaffordable Healthcare Act was passed ("we have to pass it before we know what's in it" to quote Nancy Pelosi). There is room for substantial healthcare reform, but not government schemes, please! They can't even manage Medicare.

 

The NHS is a treasure, sure. But just like our castles, it's old and from a bygone age, it's cold, it's in need of expensive repairs all the time and it's not a comfortable place to hang out.

[geosname]

 

The NHS is a treasure, sure. But just like our castles, it's old and from a bygone age, it's cold, it's in need of expensive repairs all the time and it's not a comfortable place to hang out.

 

I think it could be upgraded Tone.... I really do... It will take radical surgery which no one seems willing to contemplate but it is repairable, updateable and most of all worth it... but the initial investment in time and money frightening.