9 minutes ago, Dodgy Bob McMayday said:

Agreed, their wide players were very good and would likely have come out on top anyway given their form, but we never challenged them. Pretty early on Byers tackled Crozier-Duberry and left a bit on him and I thought 'great, we're up for this' as he hobbled off. Now I know you're never going to kick a player like that out of a game these days, but that was the only challenge made on him.

Cissoko on the other side was allowed to run into the area several times without John making any challenge, not like him at all. I know against tricky wingers you can't just dive in with a challenge but we looked scared of even fronting them up.

Last season, and at the start of this one, you could guarantee players would be committed right to the end but it just feels like something has changed and it's all a bit half arsed recently.

I remember the challenge by Byers and thinking the only chance to stop this guy and Cissoko  is to man mark them with  physicality but either we weren't able to do it or they were just too good. Crosier-Duberry in particular was everywhere, he didn't just sit on the wing.

As a kid I remember several times hearing George Best talk about days he felt he could go onto a football pitch and do anything, no one could stop him and that's what Saturday looked like with Crozier-Duberry and Cissoko, they were just too good. I'm not saying those two are as good as "El Beatle".

When a team has players playing as well and as directly as those two did on Saturday it unbalances the opposition and Vale became unbalanced, not knowing which way to turn, the mistakes didn't help (3rd goal) so it was no wonder confidence and everything else was lost.

Next two league games are crucial.

 

Watching the extended highlights of this back, away from the anger of Saturday. I will warn people that it has a bit of nuance in it so look away now if you're looking for things to confirm what you already think:

- We start very well. Headley and Byers look extremely lively. Cole, Garrity, and Hall all have really good chances. We're either a historically poor finishing team, or eventually some of these chances will go in, whoever the manager is. Moore can manage a lead so if we do end up taking any of these early chances we seem to create, results may start to shift.

- John clearly wasn't fit but is the only right-sided player. Clark and Gabriel are out for the long-term. Cissokho was a decent Championship player last season and every move went down that side once they got a grip of the game. It was a bad matchup but an unavoidable one.

- Cozier-Duberry is one of those loanees who has been sent to the wrong level and will be in the Championship by January. Sometimes the opposition have significantly better players and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. Another nightmare matchup for Hall, but an unavoidable one.

- The second goal is the sickener. Goes through both Walters and Byers' legs. It's just a crap, annoying goal to concede, but I'm not sure anyone is really at fault or it's somehow on the manager.

Up to this point, I'm not sure Moore has done a whole lot wrong. The eleven he picked seemed to be on top and, inevitably, goals will start to go in if we keep creating them at this rate. I can't really blame him for any of the above. The second goal is just a bit unlucky + a good finish, and the first is messy and a rare error from Gauci. No one really does much wrong, it's not a massive structural problem.

However, this is where things begin to go wrong for Moore, and where the blame lies, and why there's a very decent argument for a change in management.

The half-time subs were of our best performers. He strips us of the attacking threat we had in the first half. Garrity just can't play deep midfield. Headley was linking up brilliantly with Johnson and was a real threat. Byers was picking up second balls and keeping us moving. Moore neuters us through some really poor subs. 

He then subs Walters for Croasdale. Again, not good. Croasdale and Garrity are very similar, and neither want to receive under pressure. This means neither want the ball from defence, and the centre halves go long to Cole, who isn't a target man. This seals our fate.

Croasdale does come short, his touch is shocking, and it's slipped through to 'the player far too good for League 1'. Even this has an element of misfortune, taking a nick off Debrah on the way in.

At that point it's just a non-event. We're throwing Johnson forward to try and create something, Hall is isolated against Cozier-Duberry, and it's 4.

So, yeah. I can't really pin much blame onto Moore for the first half. We were the better side in that 45 and then got done by 2 sucker-punches. In football this can happen, especially against good teams with good players. If you can't handle this truth then the sport isn't for you - sometimes stuff happens that is beyond the control of the manager.

His reaction to that is the worrying part - a series of bad substitutions, each one making us worse and worse, to the point where it got silly. 

Moore's inability to chase a game is perhaps the most worrying thing about him at the minute - his subs against Wigan, Stockport, and Bolton all made us worse, with his view being to abandon the midfield and either throw strikers or grafters on. As soon as we concede if either panics or can't see the problem, and would genuinely be better off doing nothing than the sort of stuff he's tried (4 strikers against Wigan, Garrity and Croasdale midfield against Stockport and Bolton). A goal conceded is a death sentence as it seems to trigger Moore into some quite mental decision-making.

Folk won't like this as they want Moore sacked (as I do) and the idea that some things on Saturday weren't his fault is heretical. When a manager is on the ropes, literally everything is their fault. However, the first half isn't really his fault - it's just how poorly he deals with it. We could have got back into that, or at least not lost 4-0.

In my view, Moore was fine in the first half, got done by a very good player, a slightly unfit wing back, and two goals he can't control, and then reacted extremely poorly. This is the concern. If we continue to miss early chances, we're going to fall behind more often than not and he's proving he can't handle that.

Edited November 10, 2025Nov 10 by JoeB2

On 08/11/2025 at 20:10, trentvale said:

Robbie Savsge- not a bad shout

The guy is an utter bell though 

On 09/11/2025 at 11:08, Hoppers said:

Wow just seen Steve evans in that interview 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 he looks really well - that is some fitness regime - fantastic achievement 👍👍👍

Gotta be on the Mounjaro as well

Hello all

I've just waded through most of this thread, having calmed down a bit after Saturday. 
 

Now I didn’t really expect us to beat Bolton, as they’re a good side most seasons, and it seems this is the case again this season. They also seem to be one of our bogey teams, even when we are playing well. 
 

I was visiting my old man on Saturday so was only able to follow it on the score apps, and Livescore’s AI, and/or the commentary, certainly thought we were on top for the first half an hour, which has been echoed on here.

 

I’ve been to three home games this season, Cardiff, Arsenal and Northampton, so a pretty random mixture, and have ominously got tickets for me and my kids to come to the Plymouth match. 
 

I have given it some thought, and I think I sit in the camp that a few do here. Moore just doesn’t excite me. He seems a nice bloke, and my Albion mates think he’s brilliant, but they are reminiscing about when he played for them. Even promotion last season didn’t seem that exciting. Compare that to Darrell Clarke’s promotion season, for example, and I was way more invested. 
 

It does seem baffling that we have seemingly decent players, as people have said, either playing well and being dropped or then bombed out totally, or being played in their wrong positions. I don’t go often enough to know whether they actually do look like they’ve downed tools, but it really wouldn’t surprise me. 
 

I fear the Argyle match could have a very poisonous atmosphere, especially if Tolaj scores early on and we’re looking poor. As we’ve seen before though, Carol won’t pull the trigger early enough as she’s too nice, Vale are too nice… and we’ll suffer for it. Again. 

Hello all
I've just waded through most of this thread, having calmed down a bit after Saturday. 
 
Now I didn’t really expect us to beat Bolton, as they’re a good side most seasons, and it seems this is the case again this season. They also seem to be one of our bogey teams, even when we are playing well. 
 
I was visiting my old man on Saturday so was only able to follow it on the score apps, and Livescore’s AI, and/or the commentary, certainly thought we were on top for the first half an hour, which has been echoed on here.
 
I’ve been to three home games this season, Cardiff, Arsenal and Northampton, so a pretty random mixture, and have ominously got tickets for me and my kids to come to the Plymouth match. 
 
I have given it some thought, and I think I sit in the camp that a few do here. Moore just doesn’t excite me. He seems a nice bloke, and my Albion mates think he’s brilliant, but they are reminiscing about when he played for them. Even promotion last season didn’t seem that exciting. Compare that to Darrell Clarke’s promotion season, for example, and I was way more invested. 
 
It does seem baffling that we have seemingly decent players, as people have said, either playing well and being dropped or then bombed out totally, or being played in their wrong positions. I don’t go often enough to know whether they actually do look like they’ve downed tools, but it really wouldn’t surprise me. 
 
I fear the Argyle match could have a very poisonous atmosphere, especially if Tolaj scores early on and we’re looking poor. As we’ve seen before though, Carol won’t pull the trigger early enough as she’s too nice, Vale are too nice… and we’ll suffer for it. Again. 

I agree with your sentiments. Last season's promotion felt massively underwhelming for me. Out of the 3 we have had in the past 15 years, last year will comfortably go down as the least exciting.

Maybe it was because we weren't fighting against the odds and probably had the highest budget in the league, so expectation was to finish top 3 anyway.

But you can't hand on heart say there were many more than half a dozen games that anyone will remember in 2 years, nevermind 10. I still remember vividly the games against Rotherham, Fleetwood, Cheltenham and Burton in our 2013 promotion season...swashbuckling football with proper wingers, a clever number 10 and a great striker.

Although results are clearly importantly, it would be great to have a bit of entertainment too. Even Moore's interviews are one note.

He's a smashing bloke, respected throughout football but I just don't think he's for us. Our base responds much better to someone with a bit of character like a Micky Adams or a Clarke.

13 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

He's a smashing bloke, respected throughout football but I just don't think he's for us. Our base responds much better to someone with a bit of character like a Micky Adams or a Clarke.

Lots of people are smashing blokes. Dean Glover was one of our best ever players and respected by everyone, but he was a crap manager for us. I don't think that we necessarily need a character - Rudgie wasn't that much of a character, neither were Foyle, Page, Sinnott, etc. But they all spoke far more eloquently and passionately about the game than Darren "the erminator" Moore does. If I hear him say one more time that we'll learn from a defeat, I'll rip out what little hair I have left. 

I don't think he cares enough about this job. I think he thinks Port Vale are a little club and he'll be on to better things soon. He thinks he knows better than the Vale fans in terms of player selection and wants to do what he's done with a much bigger budget (ie a massive squad and rotation) but it isn't working. If he gets sacked, I don't think he'll be too bothered.

Get him gone Carol.

Edited November 10, 2025Nov 10 by gavcradd

Lots of people are smashing blokes. Dean Glover was one of our best ever players and respected by everyone, but he was a crap manager for us. I don't think that we necessarily need a character - Rudgie wasn't that much of a character, neither were Foyle, Page, Sinnott, etc. But they all spoke far more eloquently and passionately about the game than Darren "the erminator" Moore does. If I hear him say one more time that we'll learn from a defeat, I'll rip out what little hair I have left. 
I don't think he cares enough about this job. I think he thinks Port Vale are a little club and he'll be on to better things soon. He thinks he knows better than the Vale fans in terms of player selection and wants to do what he's done with a much bigger budget (ie a massive squad and rotation) but it isn't working. If he gets sacked, I don't think he'll be too bothered.
Get him gone Carol.

I think you're probably right. I think he probably thought we'd be the stepping stone back into the big time. He never looks overly arsed, win or lose.

25 minutes ago, gavcradd said:

Lots of people are smashing blokes. Dean Glover was one of our best ever players and respected by everyone, but he was a crap manager for us. I don't think that we necessarily need a character - Rudgie wasn't that much of a character, neither were Foyle, Page, Sinnott, etc. But they all spoke far more eloquently and passionately about the game than Darren "the erminator" Moore does. If I hear him say one more time that we'll learn from a defeat, I'll rip out what little hair I have left. 

I don't think he cares enough about this job. I think he thinks Port Vale are a little club and he'll be on to better things soon. He thinks he knows better than the Vale fans in terms of player selection and wants to do what he's done with a much bigger budget (ie a massive squad and rotation) but it isn't working. If he gets sacked, I don't think he'll be too bothered.

Get him gone Carol.

The Erminator !!. Love it. Top humour.

16 hours ago, SS Vale said:

I don’t think Garrity wants to do them  because he’s throwing his toys out , and Moore is letting him . Garrity  , for all his good years at Vale Park , can’t wait to get out of the club. Moore has lost the dressing room .

I don't agree with you. I think he's extremely pi$$ed off and is being played out of position. 

I wish we had a team of people who had his passion. 

2 hours ago, Osh said:

I don't agree with you. I think he's extremely pi$$ed off and is being played out of position. 

I wish we had a team of people who had his passion. 

For me that’s a poor attitude. You always hear players saying they’ll play anywhere. I imagine all the players not in the squad/sat on the bench would be happy to take his place if it meant playing, even if not in their position.

You didn’t see Curtis or G Hall throwing their toys out the pram when playing at wing back.

Maybe he should be thankful he’s being paid more than the vast majority of our fans earn and to do a job we’d all love to do.

Don't think I’ve seen much passion from him either this season. He looks a miserable git and I’m not quite sure how that’s supposed to get the team up for playing when your captain looks like he doesn’t want to be there.

12 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

13 hours ago, gavcradd said:

Lots of people are smashing blokes. Dean Glover was one of our best ever players and respected by everyone, but he was a crap manager for us. I don't think that we necessarily need a character - Rudgie wasn't that much of a character, neither were Foyle, Page, Sinnott, etc. But they all spoke far more eloquently and passionately about the game than Darren "the erminator" Moore does. If I hear him say one more time that we'll learn from a defeat, I'll rip out what little hair I have left. 
I don't think he cares enough about this job. I think he thinks Port Vale are a little club and he'll be on to better things soon. He thinks he knows better than the Vale fans in terms of player selection and wants to do what he's done with a much bigger budget (ie a massive squad and rotation) but it isn't working. If he gets sacked, I don't think he'll be too bothered.
Get him gone Carol.

I think you're probably right. I think he probably thought we'd be the stepping stone back into the big time. He never looks overly arsed, win or lose.

Well if he does think we are supposed to be a stepping stone to greater things, then he needs to get the results that might justify that ambition. He certainly isn't impressing anyone at the moment. It would be more accurate to say he's on a slippery slope to oblivion - and we don't want to be accompanying him on that particular journney...

 

 

16 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

I remember the challenge by Byers and thinking the only chance to stop this guy and Cissoko  is to man mark them with  physicality but either we weren't able to do it or they were just too good. Crosier-Duberry in particular was everywhere, he didn't just sit on the wing.

As a kid I remember several times hearing George Best talk about days he felt he could go onto a football pitch and do anything, no one could stop him and that's what Saturday looked like with Crozier-Duberry and Cissoko, they were just too good. I'm not saying those two are as good as "El Beatle".

When a team has players playing as well and as directly as those two did on Saturday it unbalances the opposition and Vale became unbalanced, not knowing which way to turn, the mistakes didn't help (3rd goal) so it was no wonder confidence and everything else was lost.

Next two league games are crucial.

 

Might be an excuse if we were turning up in other games but 3 wins in 15 and a minus 8 goal difference suggests that there is a wider problem than not being able to handle boltons wide men.

 

Next 2 league games should decide DM's future as our manager.

17 hours ago, JoeB2 said:

Watching the extended highlights of this back, away from the anger of Saturday. I will warn people that it has a bit of nuance in it so look away now if you're looking for things to confirm what you already think:

- We start very well. Headley and Byers look extremely lively. Cole, Garrity, and Hall all have really good chances. We're either a historically poor finishing team, or eventually some of these chances will go in, whoever the manager is. Moore can manage a lead so if we do end up taking any of these early chances we seem to create, results may start to shift.

- John clearly wasn't fit but is the only right-sided player. Clark and Gabriel are out for the long-term. Cissokho was a decent Championship player last season and every move went down that side once they got a grip of the game. It was a bad matchup but an unavoidable one.

- Cozier-Duberry is one of those loanees who has been sent to the wrong level and will be in the Championship by January. Sometimes the opposition have significantly better players and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. Another nightmare matchup for Hall, but an unavoidable one.

- The second goal is the sickener. Goes through both Walters and Byers' legs. It's just a crap, annoying goal to concede, but I'm not sure anyone is really at fault or it's somehow on the manager.

Up to this point, I'm not sure Moore has done a whole lot wrong. The eleven he picked seemed to be on top and, inevitably, goals will start to go in if we keep creating them at this rate. I can't really blame him for any of the above. The second goal is just a bit unlucky + a good finish, and the first is messy and a rare error from Gauci. No one really does much wrong, it's not a massive structural problem.

However, this is where things begin to go wrong for Moore, and where the blame lies, and why there's a very decent argument for a change in management.

The half-time subs were of our best performers. He strips us of the attacking threat we had in the first half. Garrity just can't play deep midfield. Headley was linking up brilliantly with Johnson and was a real threat. Byers was picking up second balls and keeping us moving. Moore neuters us through some really poor subs. 

He then subs Walters for Croasdale. Again, not good. Croasdale and Garrity are very similar, and neither want to receive under pressure. This means neither want the ball from defence, and the centre halves go long to Cole, who isn't a target man. This seals our fate.

Croasdale does come short, his touch is shocking, and it's slipped through to 'the player far too good for League 1'. Even this has an element of misfortune, taking a nick off Debrah on the way in.

At that point it's just a non-event. We're throwing Johnson forward to try and create something, Hall is isolated against Cozier-Duberry, and it's 4.

So, yeah. I can't really pin much blame onto Moore for the first half. We were the better side in that 45 and then got done by 2 sucker-punches. In football this can happen, especially against good teams with good players. If you can't handle this truth then the sport isn't for you - sometimes stuff happens that is beyond the control of the manager.

His reaction to that is the worrying part - a series of bad substitutions, each one making us worse and worse, to the point where it got silly. 

Moore's inability to chase a game is perhaps the most worrying thing about him at the minute - his subs against Wigan, Stockport, and Bolton all made us worse, with his view being to abandon the midfield and either throw strikers or grafters on. As soon as we concede if either panics or can't see the problem, and would genuinely be better off doing nothing than the sort of stuff he's tried (4 strikers against Wigan, Garrity and Croasdale midfield against Stockport and Bolton). A goal conceded is a death sentence as it seems to trigger Moore into some quite mental decision-making.

Folk won't like this as they want Moore sacked (as I do) and the idea that some things on Saturday weren't his fault is heretical. When a manager is on the ropes, literally everything is their fault. However, the first half isn't really his fault - it's just how poorly he deals with it. We could have got back into that, or at least not lost 4-0.

In my view, Moore was fine in the first half, got done by a very good player, a slightly unfit wing back, and two goals he can't control, and then reacted extremely poorly. This is the concern. If we continue to miss early chances, we're going to fall behind more often than not and he's proving he can't handle that.

You’ve summed up my feelings, far more articulately than I could manage. 

5 hours ago, kevin_struggles said:

Might be an excuse if we were turning up in other games but 3 wins in 15 and a minus 8 goal difference suggests that there is a wider problem than not being able to handle boltons wide men.

 

Next 2 league games should decide DM's future as our manager.

Darren should have collected his P45 by now