Option for DOF or similar role

[Warren]

1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

Carol hopefully will have someone in mind at another club. Alternatively, a restructuring of the DoF function within the club of the responsibilities carried out previously. Recruitment and negotiations within the allocated budget of all types of player in particular.

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Martin Foyle has had a lot of backroom football coaching / recruitment / scouting jobs since leaving Port Vale. He's definitely time served. But what I read into all the stuff I have followed is that he does want quiet back office roles and not front office jobs that potentially come with a pile of fan base aggro. That said he is currently Head of Recruitment at St Mirren who are upper mid table in the Scottish PL. I guess if he recruited a lot of nonsense and they were in trouble it would be a frontline job!

Edited March 25 by Warren

[Paul6754]

On 24/03/2024 at 15:55, PVFC FAN said:

All the top clubs have dofs. As far as I'm aware back in the old days the manager would send scouts out for players that would fit the squad. It sounds good but top clubs have had a dof since the 2000s. I'm open to the idea because Darren has worked at top clubs and knows how things should be run. Maybe have Darren incharge of everything to do with the team and how we play and then have someone else for off pitch like new developments etc. I'm open to anything.

Yep PVFC the top clubs, those in the Prem and Championship, have money to burn at the moment and make huge financial mistakes time and time again when signing players which a club the size of Vale simply cannot afford to do.

I don't know how DoF's at the big clubs operate with their respective managers but I've read on numerous occasions Prem Lge managers talking about a new player who showed up for training and the 1st team manager knew nothing about the signing, to me that's ludicrous.

So for a club the size of Vale, IMHO the DoF should be the manager of the 1st team and everything football flows down from him. At the moment at the Vale the manager is Darren Moore so in this scheme of things Darren Moore would be the DoF, whether DM could do this job who knows, I'm not advocating DM should be replaced.

A "Football Recruiter" would be hired and report to DM, trusted scouts and  "Sports Statistics" to identify players to sign but have scouts run their eye over the players before they're signed as from what I've seen at Vale, reliance only on statistics for a footballer doesn't tell the whole story.

I suggested Phil Sproson and Colin Garlick, I think Sprowy would be perfect for the job, Garlick as an example of a non-footballer who may have more of a business take on the position. 

The men's 1st team at a football club is it's raison d'etre and the manager of that 1 st team is  the most important person at the club along with the owner.

[PVFC FAN]

7 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Yep PVFC the top clubs, those in the Prem and Championship, have money to burn at the moment and make huge financial mistakes time and time again when signing players which a club the size of Vale simply cannot afford to do.

I don't know how DoF's at the big clubs operate with their respective managers but I've read on numerous occasions Prem Lge managers talking about a new player who showed up for training and the 1st team manager knew nothing about the signing, to me that's ludicrous.

So for a club the size of Vale, IMHO the DoF should be the manager of the 1st team and everything football flows down from him. At the moment at the Vale the manager is Darren Moore so in this scheme of things Darren Moore would be the DoF, whether DM could do this job who knows, I'm not advocating DM should be replaced.

A "Football Recruiter" would be hired and report to DM, trusted scouts and  "Sports Statistics" to identify players to sign but have scouts run their eye over the players before they're signed as from what I've seen at Vale, reliance only on statistics for a footballer doesn't tell the whole story.

I suggested Phil Sproson and Colin Garlick, I think Sprowy would be perfect for the job, Garlick as an example of a non-footballer who may have more of a business take on the position. 

The men's 1st team at a football club is it's raison d'etre and the manager of that 1 st team is  the most important person at the club along with the owner.

Yep

Like I said I'm open to anything

I would like to say though it's not just top clubs with dof. They were the first to start using dofs and everyone followed in there footsteps because it can work so well. Im open to anything.

[Fosse69]

You can't compare DoFs at L1 level with the Sporting Directors at the top clubs who will be paid accordingly. We either operate at L1 or stay as little Port Vale and struggle to play above L2. Recruitment is a lot more organised and competitive nowadays. We obviously don't have the budget traps that Prem teams have to deal with, but allowing the first team manager more time to concentrate on results must benefit as long as his voice is heard by the recruiters.


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[Tamworth]

For the new recruitment arrangements we put in place now, it's crucial that the Manager is involved and has the final say (subject to Owner's budgets of course).

Whatever you or I might think of Flitcroft the individual, the set-up we had under him was clearly unsuitable for a Club of our size and stature. However, there does have to be one person in charge of all things to do with the playing side, so for Vale, the Manager should be providing his wish list and ultimately deciding who is signed based on the recommendations of the recruitment team.

Edited March 26 by Tamworth

[Shropshire_Valiant]

Haven't read a lot of the thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything, I think the fact we have staff who were "supporting" Flitcroft I assume with the "donkey work" on stats/scouting etc on potential signings can still prove useful?  Can they not report to Moore with their findings then he makes the overall decision on whether we try and sign said player?  Then when it comes to thrashing out the financials if it's more complicated obviously someone higher up the chain in the club Carol/Kevin whoever would have to be involved in discussions. 

Obviously something somewhere in the "process" has been going wrong under Flitcroft so clearly that needs ironing out by the club moving forward!

[werstayinup]

It might be that DM has already suggested someone that he could work with or has worked with

[sbilli]

If we are gonna look for a new DOF. We need spomeone with expirience and contacts from the upper tiers. We could find someone working for top tiers acadamy or from the development squads, someone looking to take the next step. With good knowledge of youngsters from in the two top divisions. with a reputation that will attract young talent to the Vale. The upper tiers clubs are creating a lot of talented footballers we can get for free. Give them a year in the development team and ship them out on loan. 
The most sucsessfull storys i have seen from the Vale, have wery often started with good raw talent from championship and Premier league, picked up on the cheap. Loan players are good and can help us on pitch on a short term. The acadamy is starting to look good, and are creating home grown players. But i still think we should choose a DOF that can dig up some good realeased talent from the top tiers.

[Nippy Naylor]

On 24/03/2024 at 11:48, Rampant Zebra said:

He was, I saw him...

One Tin Foyle, there's only one Tin Foyle 

[Nippy Naylor]

18 hours ago, PVFC FAN said:

Yep

Like I said I'm open to anything

I would like to say though it's not just top clubs with dof. They were the first to start using dofs and everyone followed in there footsteps because it can work so well. Im open to anything.

I don't think we need a DOF 

Let Darren Moore crack on with recruitment 

[PVFC FAN]

Just now, Nippy Naylor said:

I don't think we need a DOF 

Let Darren Moore crack on with recruitment 

Ye I'm fine with that. Bring in a experienced head scout.

[Paul6754]

12 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

You can't compare DoFs at L1 level with the Sporting Directors at the top clubs who will be paid accordingly. We either operate at L1 or stay as little Port Vale and struggle to play above L2. Recruitment is a lot more organised and competitive nowadays. We obviously don't have the budget traps that Prem teams have to deal with, but allowing the first team manager more time to concentrate on results must benefit as long as his voice is heard by the recruiters.


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Fosse, My point is the manager should tell the recruiters whom he wants and the recruiters go out and see if they can sign the player(s), it's a two way process and would involve scouts and Sports Statistics if needed.

This is not new as in past times Brian Clough was the Manager and Peter Taylor the recruiter or the Mercer/Allison duo etc. Recruitment is different now with all the  agents and stuff.

I must admit if I had my way I would abolish this "Transfer window" nonsense, what does it achieve apart from restrict the careers and lives of professional football players.

[blackdog]

8 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

 

I must admit if I had my way I would abolish this "Transfer window" nonsense, what does it achieve apart from restrict the careers and lives of professional football players.

 

I agree with this, in my opinion it puts unnecessary pressure on clubs and it could be argued on the players themselves.

[TJHValiant]

On 25/03/2024 at 19:32, valeparklife said:

Surely, if people are suggesting Foyle, they would be able to back it up other than "he was a good striker for us in the 90s".

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And a very ropey manager for us in the mid 2000s. 

[NW9Valiant]

5 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Fosse, My point is the manager should tell the recruiters whom he wants and the recruiters go out and see if they can sign the player(s), it's a two way process and would involve scouts and Sports Statistics if needed.

I get the point, but it's a bit 'backward' to the way many modern clubs recruit now. Because of manager turnover in particular, generally the best run sides have an 'identity' and recruit towards that (managers and players included). 

Of course that's what DF was supposed to do but somehow managed to dictate a wingback system and provide us with no wingbacks, and some of our best youth prospects being wingers.

So DM running the show might not be great if he didn't work out, because of the turnover needed when a new manager comes in who has a different approach. 

Saying that, Moore's shown himself to be more flexible than I imagined with team shape and set up, he doesn't seem to have an identity at all. So I'm really not sure whether to be convinced DM would be the right person to drive recruitment or not.