Who’s to blame?

[valefan16]

I have given myself 2 days to calm down and try and look at the events of the last 4-5 days objectively and here is my view on it...

The blame has to start at the very top but is also a collective, so many errors or failings are happening that its not just on one person. Since 5pm on January the 1st 2023 we have won 11 league games in 13 months, 5 of those in a month spell August/Sept, and 3 of them in a 3 week spell in December, that leaves 3 wins in the other 7-8 months of football played over the 2 seasons. That is dire in itself.

Everything done previously since the take over in 2019 is slowly undoing due to a lack of communication, lack of investment in the correct area's and we really run the risk of sitting here in 12 months time and being back slogging it out to scrape the 40-50 points we need to stay in the football league with how it is going with 4500 fans in the ground.

Lets be blunt here, V2001 came in as saviours but that went sour, as did Smurf for a while so we have been burnt as a fan base before, now I am not suggesting in any way Carol and Kevin are heading that same route, I dont believe for one minute that but just because you saved the club etc doesn't mean you should be beyond criticism and some fans still seem to have this "well they saved us so its ok" attitude. I am forever grateful to Carol and Kevin for saving us and for the great time's we've had 2021 into 2022 and the enjoyable first season 2019/20 but we can't hide from the here and now based on the past, we are regressing as a club massively, for some reason in January 2023 everything seems to have changed and I don't understand why?

Take out the two awful transfer windows in the two January's but the whole place comes across as apathetic and its rubbing off on the fans, you've long term loyal fans giving up almost on us, the whole atmosphere around the place from top to bottom including fans now seems apathetic, I was out walking in Derbyshire Saturday (not the best time to be stood on  rock overhanging a sheer drop checking the score I will be honest!) but I thought "Why am I bothered?, if the club isn't?" thats the feeling I have, that they are not bothered that we are 5th bottom and nose diving, they've done little to turn it around or try to turn it around, there has been little to no communication for the fans at all anymore (the odd fans forum every 3-4 months isn't good enough), we all stayed up expecting the signing we were told we would get (Striker) for it just to not happen... no communication.

Something is massively wrong at the moment, no one knows what it is but something has to be very wrong and the longer it goes on, with no change, no communication the more rumours will develop and that is no good for anyone.

Crosby is out his depth, Flitcroft has failed for a second transfer window in 3 and Carol and the board make the top decisions, its on all three, the players who by their apologies on social media clearly didn't feel they put enough in have to take some flack too. Things have to change and fast, if not there will be no "Championship Ready" no "7-8000 attendances, and we will be back welcoming 200 fans from Barrow and Harrogate rather than 3000 Wednesday and Derby fans.

At the moment the general fan is being let down... and thats not something I expected in this regime, we have portaloo's, no communication... dont forget the real fan, the one thats been coming 50 years, or travels up every week from London, Cambridge, Leicestershire etc, they are your bread and butter and without them there is no Port Vale Football Club regardless of how nice the corporate facilities are and how good the youth players are. Lets wake up from this sleepwalk we are on and get the club back that we had in 2022.

 

[darren1810]

2 minutes ago, valefan16 said:

I have given myself 2 days to calm down and try and look at the events of the last 4-5 days objectively and here is my view on it...

The blame has to start at the very top but is also a collective, so many errors or failings are happening that its not just on one person. Since 5pm on January the 1st 2023 we have won 11 league games in 13 months, 5 of those in a month spell August/Sept, and 3 of them in a 3 week spell in December, that leaves 3 wins in the other 7-8 months of football played over the 2 seasons. That is dire in itself.

Everything done previously since the take over in 2019 is slowly undoing due to a lack of communication, lack of investment in the correct area's and we really run the risk of sitting here in 12 months time and being back slogging it out to scrape the 40-50 points we need to stay in the football league with how it is going with 4500 fans in the ground.

Lets be blunt here, V2001 came in as saviours but that went sour, as did Smurf for a while so we have been burnt as a fan base before, now I am not suggesting in any way Carol and Kevin are heading that same route, I dont believe for one minute that but just because you saved the club etc doesn't mean you should be beyond criticism and some fans still seem to have this "well they saved us so its ok" attitude. I am forever grateful to Carol and Kevin for saving us and for the great time's we've had 2021 into 2022 and the enjoyable first season 2019/20 but we can't hide from the here and now based on the past, we are regressing as a club massively, for some reason in January 2023 everything seems to have changed and I don't understand why?

Take out the two awful transfer windows in the two January's but the whole place comes across as apathetic and its rubbing off on the fans, you've long term loyal fans giving up almost on us, the whole atmosphere around the place from top to bottom including fans now seems apathetic, I was out walking in Derbyshire Saturday (not the best time to be stood on  rock overhanging a sheer drop checking the score I will be honest!) but I thought "Why am I bothered?, if the club isn't?" thats the feeling I have, that they are not bothered that we are 5th bottom and nose diving, they've done little to turn it around or try to turn it around, there has been little to no communication for the fans at all anymore (the odd fans forum every 3-4 months isn't good enough), we all stayed up expecting the signing we were told we would get (Striker) for it just to not happen... no communication.

Something is massively wrong at the moment, no one knows what it is but something has to be very wrong and the longer it goes on, with no change, no communication the more rumours will develop and that is no good for anyone.

Crosby is out his depth, Flitcroft has failed for a second transfer window in 3 and Carol and the board make the top decisions, its on all three, the players who by their apologies on social media clearly didn't feel they put enough in have to take some flack too. Things have to change and fast, if not there will be no "Championship Ready" no "7-8000 attendances, and we will be back welcoming 200 fans from Barrow and Harrogate rather than 3000 Wednesday and Derby fans.

At the moment the general fan is being let down... and thats not something I expected in this regime, we have portaloo's, no communication... dont forget the real fan, the one thats been coming 50 years, or travels up every week from London, Cambridge, Leicestershire etc, they are your bread and butter and without them there is no Port Vale Football Club regardless of how nice the corporate facilities are and how good the youth players are. Lets wake up from this sleepwalk we are on and get the club back that we had in 2022.

 

An excellent well put together post . 

[TJHValiant]

48 minutes ago, Mr Brightside said:

Meant 'at best', thanks for highlighting, I've updated post.

I think you’re right on both counts. I have not been able to see us better than league 1 since, if I am being charitable, the McPhee season in 2003 ish? 

[Valiant in Brum]

A new smaller.stadium part owned by the council should havve been comissioned a long time ago.

Vale Park as much as we are all attached is like a curse on the club.

Not sure what the club should do.

[TJHValiant]

52 minutes ago, darren1810 said:

That Newport v Man United FA Cup game would of dwarfed what we made from 5 League Cup ties combined and then some. 

Too right. Maybe all the early Carol era bonus expenditure came from the Man City cup tie? With all the TV revenue etc perhaps £1 million extra may not been too exaggerated? 

[Vale1995]

I cannot believe hes still in charge. Tomorrow is going to be toxic from the first bit of bad play. So pretty much from the off. Chaos if we concede .

[TJHValiant]

4 minutes ago, Valiant in Brum said:

A new smaller.stadium part owned by the council should havve been comissioned a long time ago.

Vale Park as much as we are all attached is like a curse on the club.

Not sure what the club should do.

I don’t accept this idea that Vale park is some expensive money pit either. Lincoln, Bristol Rovers, Stevenage, Cambridge, Portsmouth, Barnsley, Peterborough, Orient, Carlisle, Blackpool all have old, established grounds. Some more rebuilt than others. 

Plenty of clubs in new grounds found them major burdens. 

I would say Vale Park is roughly on par with Peterborough’s ground. We have plenty of modern hospitality and other things like a quality club shop that should make money. 
 

[Brian Johnson]

16 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

 

I don’t accept this idea that Vale park is some expensive money pit either. Lincoln, Bristol Rovers, Stevenage, Cambridge, Portsmouth, Barnsley, Peterborough, Orient, Carlisle, Blackpool all have old, established grounds. Some more rebuilt than others. 

Plenty of clubs in new grounds found them major burdens. 

I would say Vale Park is roughly on par with Peterborough’s ground. We have plenty of modern hospitality and other things like a quality club shop that should make money. 
 

Stevenage - is tiny compared to Vale Park

Cambridge, Orient, Carlisle much smaller than Vale Park

Blackpool have over the years completely rebuilt the whole of the stadium which now encompasses a 4 star hotel.

Barnsley & Portsmouth have similar sized stadium to Vale Park but they both get much much more bigger support than Vale

[Guppys left peg]

34 minutes ago, Valiant in Brum said:

A new smaller.stadium part owned by the council should havve been comissioned a long time ago.

Vale Park as much as we are all attached is like a curse on the club.

Not sure what the club should do.

I completely agree or at least the feasibility of it could have been looked at. Long ago accepted am in the minority on this but it’s a millstone round the clubs neck and will continue to be.

[Mr Brightside]

8 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

 

I don’t accept this idea that Vale park is some expensive money pit either. Lincoln, Bristol Rovers, Stevenage, Cambridge, Portsmouth, Barnsley, Peterborough, Orient, Carlisle, Blackpool all have old, established grounds. Some more rebuilt than others. 

Plenty of clubs in new grounds found them major burdens. 

I would say Vale Park is roughly on par with Peterborough’s ground. We have plenty of modern hospitality and other things like a quality club shop that should make money. 
 

I agree ref Vale Park is on par with Peterboroughs ground, however the other grounds (with exception of Carlisle) have had ongoing updates/improvements done over last 25 years and Stevenages ground is only 44 years old.

Also the majority of the grounds you have mentioned have maximum capacities more in line with attendance capabilities.

[TJHValiant]

12 minutes ago, Brian Johnson said:

Stevenage - is tiny compared to Vale Park

Cambridge, Orient, Carlisle much smaller than Vale Park

Blackpool have over the years completely rebuilt the whole of the stadium which now encompasses a 4 star hotel.

Barnsley & Portsmouth have similar sized stadium to Vale Park but they both get much much more bigger support than Vale

Stevenage is tiny, but it doesn’t raise the revenue Vale park does. As are your other examples.

Blackpool is an example of a stadium being rebuilt, which doesn’t mean a whole new ground. In fairness, so has Vale Park since 1990, very very little has renamed the same since then. I think the hotel being classed as a 4 star is a bit much mind you, I’ve stayed there and it is basically a travel lodge. 
 

We have 15k seats these days and can get gates of 12,000. 3k surplus isn’t too bad. How much do 3k’s worth of seats cost? 
 

Yob fans requiring more cops probably a bigger factor. 

[Brian Johnson]

6 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

We have 15k seats these days and can get gates of 12,000. 3k surplus isn’t too bad. How much do 3k’s worth of seats cost? 
 

Yob fans requiring more cops probably a bigger factor. 

Whats our average attendance?

[Nippy Naylor]

2 hours ago, Mr Brightside said:

Our owners are believed to be putting in £1m a year just to fill the current financial gap.

In the last 24 years we've been in administration twice and had the Smurthwaite debacle and have basically declined since the end of the Bell era up to the beginning of the Shanahans era.

Unless the Vale can get further investment e.g. New owners or investors, develop and sell players or through off field activities etc then we will more than likely continue with the trend of being a 'bounce club' between league 1 and 2 at best.

Our owners unfortunately don't have the disposable wealth that the majority of owners have in league 1 and are currently further hindered with a large old ground that has still yet to be fully opened and costs a lot of money to maintain and update.

Short term with a change of manager (ideally experienced) we may see an improvement, medium term with a change of DOF  we may see further improvements, however long term without any further investment we will continue being at best a league 1 and league 2 bounce club with fond memories of the Rudgie days. 

Perhaps the money they are putting in is going in the wrong places , Hospitality is not the bee all and end all for us a competitive playing squad is more important also the fascination with having god knows how many sports science people and analysts and coaches who contribute naff all and having a manager who knows sod all about tactics and Flitcroft who is just a crook stealing a wage at the club it doesn't help matters, that's my opinion anyway , UTV .

[Brian Johnson]

7 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

I think the hotel being classed as a 4 star is a bit much mind you, I’ve stayed there and it is basically a travel lodge. 
 

 

I wished that the travel lodge's that I stop in as like the Radisson at Blackpool's ground.

You must stop on some really posh Travel Lodges

[Jacko51]

11 minutes ago, TJHValiant said:

I think the hotel being classed as a 4 star is a bit much mind you, I’ve stayed there and it is basically a travel lodge. 

Are you sure you're talking about the hotel in the ground?  It's a Radisson with spas and posh rooms.  There is a Travelodge across the road from it.