Crosby is Out NOW !!!

[philpvfc]

3 hours ago, smithie said:

"End of" usually means "I don't have any more to offer on the subject and I'm not open to other views or further discussion". 

“End of” reminds me of a previous boss I used to have, where she would end every statement and demand. I took great pleasure in telling where to <ovf censored> off to when I found another company to work for.

[philpvfc]

1 hour ago, Vale Ball said:

If he wants to leave Barrow he'll want a bigger club than Vale

Sent from my SM-A217F using onevalefan mobile app
 

If we leave it a year or so then most likely but I don’t think he will be on the radar of too many bigger clubs as of yet, not too many bigger clubs in the market for a new manager unless you step up the th championship where I think it is too early for him to be attracting them.

[Valiiant]

9 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

If carol is skint then <ovf censored> knows what me you and most other people on here are 

 

Well obviously she's not skint in regards to her own personal wealth, but it's pretty clear if the club is to progress it needs some external investment from somewhere else.

[darren1810]

2 minutes ago, Valiiant said:

 

Well obviously she's not skint in regards to her own personal wealth, but it's pretty clear if the club is to progress it needs some external investment from somewhere else.

Nail on head. 

They are rich compared to the people who come through the turnstiles. But not rich football wise. It’s an expensive business.  They've saved us and progressed us brilliantly but are not rich in football club terms. 

Double edged sword because only way to get fans back is to win matches. Which costs more money for better players. 

There's an alarming drop off of home fans attending. The worst of which was about 5800 of us against Derby. 

People always make excuses. The weather, two matches in a week . Masterchef final, whatever. 

The fact is some fans have definitely downed tools. Derby, Stevenage and Blackpool were all poor attendances. 

 

[philpvfc]

5 minutes ago, Valiiant said:

 

Well obviously she's not skint in regards to her own personal wealth, but it's pretty clear if the club is to progress it needs some external investment from somewhere else.

Do you want to explain why it is pretty clear.

unless we get extra advertising income then we will be looking for an individual or company to invest their money in to the club, they in return will want something back- what do we give? What do we sacrifice? 
As a whole, Carol runs the club well, an external investor may not have the same good intentions.

If you’d have asked me at the start of the season would you take 5 or 6 places above relegation and a cup run I’d have taken that, it has stabilised from what was a dreadful second half of last season because if we’d have carried on as before we would be well adrift at the bottom of the table by now.

If we end up 5 or 6 places above relegation come the end of season then Crosby has achieved a decent task. If he is the manager to improve on this next season then IMO I think not but for those saying he should be sacked now, then where do you realistically think we should be sitting in the table?

[Packmoor_vale]

3 minutes ago, Valiiant said:

 

Well obviously she's not skint in regards to her own personal wealth, but it's pretty clear if the club is to progress it needs some external investment from somewhere else.

Use the word club then instead of a dig at carol 

All the people giving Carol <ovf censored> tagging in her in on Facebook Twitter and the comments on here need to step back and just think where we would of been if she had of left us in smurfs hands League 2 at best but more than likely non league with the real threat of bankruptcy and our ground gone forever 

We need to realise we are not a big club it’s going take time and that’s if we can get there 

 

 

 

 

 

[Valiiant]

6 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Do you want to explain why it is pretty clear.

unless we get extra advertising income then we will be looking for an individual or company to invest their money in to the club, they in return will want something back- what do we give? What do we sacrifice? 
As a whole, Carol runs the club well, an external investor may not have the same good intentions.

If you’d have asked me at the start of the season would you take 5 or 6 places above relegation and a cup run I’d have taken that, it has stabilised from what was a dreadful second half of last season because if we’d have carried on as before we would be well adrift at the bottom of the table by now.

If we end up 5 or 6 places above relegation come the end of season then Crosby has achieved a decent task. If he is the manager to improve on this next season then IMO I think not but for those saying he should be sacked now, then where do you realistically think we should be sitting in the table?

 

I'm fine with mid-table. I'm much more concerned about performances. Which are often dreadful. About how the squad is shaping up. Crosby is tying to run before he can walk. Why would you even consider playing possession based football and playing out from the back with the personal we have? The likes of Smith, Iacovitti, Balmer and Cass couldn't pass a parcel.  Crosby's naivety as a manager came to the fore against Middlesbrough when we actually tried to out football a side from the league above who had considerably better players. That was him and us being brave. It was absolute stupidity. We got lucky with the draw to get to a Quarter Final and then exited with an absolute whimper. 

I'll ask you this also, I've asked it before but nobody pro Crosby ever answers. If he's sacked next week or next month, can you say honestly that another League One club would consider him as manager? I don't think even League Two clubs would go near him. He's quite simply out of his depth and the cold, hard truth is that Carol is either too loyal or just doesn't have the money to sack him. The odd home win here and there should not paper over the massive cracks.

[Valiiant]

12 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

Use the word club then instead of a dig at carol 

All the people giving Carol <ovf censored> tagging in her in on Facebook Twitter and the comments on here need to step back and just think where we would of been if she had of left us in smurfs hands League 2 at best but more than likely non league with the real threat of bankruptcy and our ground gone forever 

We need to realise we are not a big club it’s going take time and that’s if we can get there 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a dig at her at all. Only in your mind. I thought it would be quite obvious me saying she is skint is simply based on what she can invest in the team/squad. I'm quite aware that she's also the owner of a company. And she's also made mistakes regardless of what she did a few years back. Appointing Crosby and being fobbed off by Flitcroft being two of them.

[darren1810]

My own take on this is I thought Joe made a very good post earlier comparing the Page era. It was boring particularly away where many games were shocking. Odd exception obviously. 

Finishing 14th is fine by me. There can't be many level headed Vale fans expecting a play off challenge. Maybe our fast start of 5-1-1 did us no favours.

However the reason I'm disillusioned is the football has been dire. I really enjoyed the more direct approach v Blackpool.  I can accept defeat . Goodness knows I've seen enough in 50 years. I really can't put my finger on it . Forget the so called Happy Clapper brigade or the moaning Minnie's. Let's try and understand why fans are disengaged. 

Just why are so many of our fanbase feeling this way. It's not a few dissenting voices either. I saw versus Barnsley with my own eyes a guy who does absolutely loads for the club pleading with Carol to get rid as we trudged off to a catcall of boos. A guy who puts a lot of coin Vale's way. 

We have not got entitled opinions of grandeur. We're Port Vale. But why are there continued concerns and calls for change when we are where we should be ?

It's the mind boggling team selection. Square pegs in round holes. The baffling substitutions which make no sense. And the reluctance to deviate from this new found Port Vale way. 

I'm fed up of your Lincoln and Carlisle scenarios where both were avoidable yet nobody was surprised we conceded so late.

I'll be there Saturday, I'll be at Reading the weekend after. But it's a struggle watching some of the performances. 

It's not actually about the be all and end all of winning. I'd like us to get me off my seat and have a go. If we lose so be it. But some of the football has driven me to despair. That's why I'm disillusioned. 

 

[Playa Amodores]

1 hour ago, JoeB2 said:

Massive post more to organise my own thoughts

The parallels between this season and Rob Page's full season are fairly stark:

• Assistant appointed to replace 'big character' promotion winner who was clearly at the end of his reign
• Introduction of slow, possession football
• No strikeforce (AJ Leitch-Smith, Hooper, Uche, Robinson, Campion)
• A great midfield - O'Connor, Grant, Foley
• A great keeper - Alnwick
• A smattering of young, exciting players - Streete, Andoh, Inniss
• Uche Ikpeazu

Our record after 23 games of the 15/16 season:

Won 8, drawn 6, lost 9

Our record after 23 games of the 23/24 season:

Won 8, drawn 5, lost 10

At the halfway point we were playing slow, fairly boring possession football with no strikers and a collection of good midfielders. We beat some good teams and lost to some poor ones. Youth was beginning to break in. We had 30 points from the first 23 games.

At the halfway point of this season, we are playing slow, fairly boring possession football with no strikers and a collection of good midfielders. We've beaten some good teams and lost to some poor ones. Youth is beginning to break in. We had 29 points from the first 23 games.

What's interesting is that fans became both angry and apathetic in both seasons. I remember the disillusionment with Page. The disillusionment with Crosby feels broadly similar.

I don't think Page was ever a great League 1 manager, as evidenced by his spell at Northampton. I don't think Crosby will ever be a great League 1 manager. I'm not convinced he's even a good one.

However, there are a lot of parallels of how the fanbase reacts when we hit, in my view, the club's self-sufficient ceiling of mid-table League 1. There's a sense of frustration, understandably, that but for a few changes we could shatter the ceiling and propel ourself upwards to the top 10 and beyond. People seem less angry when everything is very clearly awful - perhaps the sense that things could easily be better riles us up? That the glory days of the 90s are within tangible reach if we stopped faffing about with Crosby?

We've lost some games this year, and they are clumped together and felt pretty awful. Of the losses, 4 were abysmal (Barnsley away, Cheltenham, Shrewsbury, Carlisle), 4 were against the current top 4 (Bolton, Posh, Pompey, Derby), 2 were unfortunate (Burton where I think we played well, and Gas where Debrah was off after half an hour), which leaves Barnsley at home which was poor but nearly salvaged against, in my view, a very good side currently 6th. I was adamant he should go during this run, but I think there was more to it than just being really bad for 12 games.

The fundamentals are that Crosby is very unlikely to be sacked. He isn't performing disastrously and isn't performing well - a 5.5/10, so far. I fundamentally disagreed with his anointment without interview, and think there are a lot of better options out there. Despite this, I am staggered by the level of vitriol of some fans towards him - and I'm someone who is incredibly defensive of Vale fans' right to moan. One tweet I've seen:

Funniest part of my weekend is watching him turn away and sulk when you abuse him hahahaha. I’ll be there waiting for you every week until you resign Andy. Expletive yourself

This tweet is from a Vale fan who attends a lot of games and, last season, was positive to the point of aggression. We have 5 points less than this time last year, yet Clarke was (rightly) lauded and Crosby deserves abuse to the point where this man actively celebrates it on a public platform. This is the same lad who has given Carol a lot of stick and demanded that she sells up. I've seen one of the most calm, long-termist posters on here call for Crosby's head. I feel like I'm in some weird fever dream.

To round up, I'm going to slip into the semi-patronising tone that a few on here adopt when they refuse to criticise anything, ever. The reality is that, with the current budget, 10th is perhaps the limit of our ambitions. I'm relentlessly demanding with PVFC, but I'm reaching a point where I need to accept we can't be on the verge of something big every year. Some years will be a tad disappointing and we'll just forget it ever happened.

From 2008-9 to 2022-23, PVFC was a club consistently on the edge of something. Relegation from League 1, to nearly going down from League 2, to the revival under Micky before he jumped ship, to the Gannon saga, to the V2001 protests, to the EGM and the betrayal, to MOLD, to administration, to Ryder, to Wildes and Smurthwaite, to promotion, to finishing 9th in League 1, to Adams being sacked, boring season, to Bruno experiment, to relegation, to nearly going down twice in League 2, to protests against Smurthwaite, to Smurthwaite threatening to liquidate the club, to Carol overpaying by 3m to save us, to being denied by the playoffs due to 0.2 ppg in COVID, to being on the brink of relegation under Askey during COVID, to DC not winning in 8 then winning 7 in a row, to being rampant at the start of 21/22, to DC losing his daughter, to bottling automatic promotion, to Swindon play-off semi, to Wembley, to being 9th on New Years Day 2023, to nearly going down in May, to DC being sacked.

It's been way too intense, and I think it's had an impact on how we react to stuff. Compare that 15 years to, say, the 15 years of Shrewsbury Town, or Bristol City, or Oxford United, and you can see that it's not normal for a club to be intensely doing something to the extent that we've been. Football is a largely dull game, saved by moments of intense activity and excitement. It feels like we've been having goalmouth scrambles for over a decade.

I think we're heading towards a boring era. My controversial view is that I think Carol will have to perform a miracle to take us further than 10th in League 1, without external investment. The challenge is keeping the fans engaged whilst we figure out how to perform that miracle. I'm still of the belief that there she is a net positive for the club and will continue to be so until the day she goes - if only by virtue of her good intentions, conscientiousness, and refusal to let us get into any serious debt. If I had to bet, I'd say we have 3-5 seasons of knocking around League 1 without really achieving much in store. Perhaps that's more normal than what we've experienced for 15 years.

Joe a very detailed post well done. I’m not an AC fan but that post that you’ve highlighted absolutely disgusts me. He’s a human being at the end of the day, in a result based industry. I might want him out but the powers that be are quite happy for AC to carry on as manager. If fans voices are ignored long enough they’ll vote with their feet. Glad I’m only on OVF, which for me is well managed 

[Valiiant]

8 minutes ago, Playa Amodores said:

Joe a very detailed post well done. I’m not an AC fan but that post that you’ve highlighted absolutely disgusts me. He’s a human being at the end of the day, in a result based industry. I might want him out but the powers that be are quite happy for AC to carry on as manager. If fans voices are ignored long enough they’ll vote with their feet. Glad I’m only on OVF, which for me is well managed 

 

He's a human being. What does that even mean? Hitler was a human being. Just an extremely poor one. Nobody is abusing Crosby here or name calling, But he shouldn't be immune to being called out for certain things. If he was doing well and everybody was praising him, nobody would have an issue with that.

[ValeForever.]

1 hour ago, JoeB2 said:

Massive post more to organise my own thoughts

The parallels between this season and Rob Page's full season are fairly stark:

• Assistant appointed to replace 'big character' promotion winner who was clearly at the end of his reign
• Introduction of slow, possession football
• No strikeforce (AJ Leitch-Smith, Hooper, Uche, Robinson, Campion)
• A great midfield - O'Connor, Grant, Foley
• A great keeper - Alnwick
• A smattering of young, exciting players - Streete, Andoh, Inniss
• Uche Ikpeazu

Our record after 23 games of the 15/16 season:

Won 8, drawn 6, lost 9

Our record after 23 games of the 23/24 season:

Won 8, drawn 5, lost 10

At the halfway point we were playing slow, fairly boring possession football with no strikers and a collection of good midfielders. We beat some good teams and lost to some poor ones. Youth was beginning to break in. We had 30 points from the first 23 games.

At the halfway point of this season, we are playing slow, fairly boring possession football with no strikers and a collection of good midfielders. We've beaten some good teams and lost to some poor ones. Youth is beginning to break in. We had 29 points from the first 23 games.

What's interesting is that fans became both angry and apathetic in both seasons. I remember the disillusionment with Page. The disillusionment with Crosby feels broadly similar.

I don't think Page was ever a great League 1 manager, as evidenced by his spell at Northampton. I don't think Crosby will ever be a great League 1 manager. I'm not convinced he's even a good one.

However, there are a lot of parallels of how the fanbase reacts when we hit, in my view, the club's self-sufficient ceiling of mid-table League 1. There's a sense of frustration, understandably, that but for a few changes we could shatter the ceiling and propel ourself upwards to the top 10 and beyond. People seem less angry when everything is very clearly awful - perhaps the sense that things could easily be better riles us up? That the glory days of the 90s are within tangible reach if we stopped faffing about with Crosby?

We've lost some games this year, and they are clumped together and felt pretty awful. Of the losses, 4 were abysmal (Barnsley away, Cheltenham, Shrewsbury, Carlisle), 4 were against the current top 4 (Bolton, Posh, Pompey, Derby), 2 were unfortunate (Burton where I think we played well, and Gas where Debrah was off after half an hour), which leaves Barnsley at home which was poor but nearly salvaged against, in my view, a very good side currently 6th. I was adamant he should go during this run, but I think there was more to it than just being really bad for 12 games.

The fundamentals are that Crosby is very unlikely to be sacked. He isn't performing disastrously and isn't performing well - a 5.5/10, so far. I fundamentally disagreed with his anointment without interview, and think there are a lot of better options out there. Despite this, I am staggered by the level of vitriol of some fans towards him - and I'm someone who is incredibly defensive of Vale fans' right to moan. One tweet I've seen:

Funniest part of my weekend is watching him turn away and sulk when you abuse him hahahaha. I’ll be there waiting for you every week until you resign Andy. Expletive yourself

This tweet is from a Vale fan who attends a lot of games and, last season, was positive to the point of aggression. We have 5 points less than this time last year, yet Clarke was (rightly) lauded and Crosby deserves abuse to the point where this man actively celebrates it on a public platform. This is the same lad who has given Carol a lot of stick and demanded that she sells up. I've seen one of the most calm, long-termist posters on here call for Crosby's head. I feel like I'm in some weird fever dream.

To round up, I'm going to slip into the semi-patronising tone that a few on here adopt when they refuse to criticise anything, ever. The reality is that, with the current budget, 10th is perhaps the limit of our ambitions. I'm relentlessly demanding with PVFC, but I'm reaching a point where I need to accept we can't be on the verge of something big every year. Some years will be a tad disappointing and we'll just forget it ever happened.

From 2008-9 to 2022-23, PVFC was a club consistently on the edge of something. Relegation from League 1, to nearly going down from League 2, to the revival under Micky before he jumped ship, to the Gannon saga, to the V2001 protests, to the EGM and the betrayal, to MOLD, to administration, to Ryder, to Wildes and Smurthwaite, to promotion, to finishing 9th in League 1, to Adams being sacked, boring season, to Bruno experiment, to relegation, to nearly going down twice in League 2, to protests against Smurthwaite, to Smurthwaite threatening to liquidate the club, to Carol overpaying by 3m to save us, to being denied by the playoffs due to 0.2 ppg in COVID, to being on the brink of relegation under Askey during COVID, to DC not winning in 8 then winning 7 in a row, to being rampant at the start of 21/22, to DC losing his daughter, to bottling automatic promotion, to Swindon play-off semi, to Wembley, to being 9th on New Years Day 2023, to nearly going down in May, to DC being sacked.

It's been way too intense, and I think it's had an impact on how we react to stuff. Compare that 15 years to, say, the 15 years of Shrewsbury Town, or Bristol City, or Oxford United, and you can see that it's not normal for a club to be intensely doing something to the extent that we've been. Football is a largely dull game, saved by moments of intense activity and excitement. It feels like we've been having goalmouth scrambles for over a decade.

I think we're heading towards a boring era. My controversial view is that I think Carol will have to perform a miracle to take us further than 10th in League 1, without external investment. The challenge is keeping the fans engaged whilst we figure out how to perform that miracle. I'm still of the belief that there she is a net positive for the club and will continue to be so until the day she goes - if only by virtue of her good intentions, conscientiousness, and refusal to let us get into any serious debt. If I had to bet, I'd say we have 3-5 seasons of knocking around League 1 without really achieving much in store. Perhaps that's more normal than what we've experienced for 15 years.

Superb post & absolutely bang on re our inability as a fan base to cope with a "boring season". We're just not accustomed to the lack of drama. There always has to be something going on at the Vale.

Agree with pretty much everything you've said there. 

[fuzzyvalefan]

1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

“End of” reminds me of a previous boss I used to have, where she would end every statement and demand. I took great pleasure in telling where to <ovf censored> off to when I found another company to work for.

I quit, end of.....in fairness it can be a good tool to cut short an argument that is going round in circles when the other person refuses to hear your point of view.  Have great practice with my Dad.  He's a master of spinning an argument that can be resolved in 30 seconds into a week or so.

[philpvfc]

2 hours ago, Valiiant said:

 

I'm fine with mid-table. I'm much more concerned about performances. Which are often dreadful. About how the squad is shaping up. Crosby is tying to run before he can walk. Why would you even consider playing possession based football and playing out from the back with the personal we have? The likes of Smith, Iacovitti, Balmer and Cass couldn't pass a parcel.  Crosby's naivety as a manager came to the fore against Middlesbrough when we actually tried to out football a side from the league above who had considerably better players. That was him and us being brave. It was absolute stupidity. We got lucky with the draw to get to a Quarter Final and then exited with an absolute whimper. 

I'll ask you this also, I've asked it before but nobody pro Crosby ever answers. If he's sacked next week or next month, can you say honestly that another League One club would consider him as manager? I don't think even League Two clubs would go near him. He's quite simply out of his depth and the cold, hard truth is that Carol is either too loyal or just doesn't have the money to sack him. The odd home win here and there should not paper over the massive cracks.

No other league 1 club would take him on at this current time, correct. Crosby is naive but it is his first year in management. Yes, his tactics are very poor and his team selection has been very questionable but on the other hand he has got us playing some good football at times, better than previous managers plus as I have mentioned, we are in as good a position as could be expected. Can we do better- Ofcourse, Could we do worse- definitely, you are too harsh on him. He is contracted to the end of season, we should part ways then, and get the right person in to replace him, not someone we potentially rush in who could take us down.

[Rampant Zebra]

Birmingham City is a good example of why it is sometimes a bad idea to change managers.