Summer transfer targets/rumours, retained list etc

[bobbymanc]

17 minutes ago, manc_vale said:

Maybe nitpicking a bit, but what did we do wrong with Gibbo? We wanted to keep him and I am sure made him a decent offer that was within the age constraints of the club. That he moved on for either cash or just becuase he fancied a new challenge is his business. I hope we finish above both of them to prove them wrong!

I would suggest that we didn't offer him a decent wage, otherwise he wouldn't have upped sticks and moved his family down to Bristol. Gibbo stated in his interview that he had to move in order to to the best for his family. That suggests to me that the Vale offer was no where near good enough for "one of our own".

[robf]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...

I have no knowledge whatsoever of what Gibbo was offered by the Vale and I suspect (despite numerous claims) no-one apart from Gibbo and the club do either.

Bristol Rovers have a very wealthy owner.

It could be that Vale offered him a perfectly reasonable wage but that moneybags Rovers offered him a ridiculous amount to sign for them.

That again fits with his comments of "best deal for him and his family" but in this case, you can't really say Vale have done anything wrong, just that another club has offered him far more money.

I'm not saying the above is correct, perhaps he was offered a pittance - but I strongly suspect that those "in the know" about how much he was offered are talking rubbish and no-one really knows. In which case, we shouldn't base our arguments on what we're guessing the club's offer to Gibbo was.

However, the facts of the matter are he's no longer a Vale player. I thought he did great in a Vale shirt and wish him well at his new club. However, a bit like Tom Pope leaving last summer, isn't it time for us to move on from a player who has left and concentrate on the ones who remain and who are joining instead?

[PV1973]

44 minutes ago, manc_vale said:

Maybe nitpicking a bit, but what did we do wrong with Gibbo? We wanted to keep him and I am sure made him a decent offer that was within the age constraints of the club. That he moved on for either cash or just becuase he fancied a new challenge is his business. I hope we finish above both of them to prove them wrong!

 

26 minutes ago, gavcradd said:

I hear that the offer we made him wasn't that good - and that he would have been nowhere near the highest paid player at the club if he'd signed. Whether that's fair with his injury record or whether DC wanted him out anyway (I've also heard rumours about his antics off the pitch), who knows. We'll have to wait 10/15 years for DC's autobipgraphy to find out. Either way, he's not at the club anymore and we move on.

 

24 minutes ago, bobbymanc said:

I would suggest that we didn't offer him a decent wage, otherwise he wouldn't have upped sticks and moved his family down to Bristol. Gibbo stated in his interview that he had to move in order to to the best for his family. That suggests to me that the Vale offer was no where near good enough for "one of our own".

I think that throwing in the phrase “highest paid player” isn’t entirely accurate and that he allegedly wanted to stay with us for less than what Bristol ended up coming in with. But I heard from a few people in the club and also that know him, that the contract offer was very low, that it wasn’t a decent league one wage, that it was pushed on him by Flickers and that those talks with Flickers did not go well at all. Fair enough that’s his choice. From what I can gather it’s Flickers that holds all the cards regarding the budget and that his decision is final.
 

Anyway, hopefully we get someone in for that area as I still think we need cover there. But priority has to be a keeper and a new centre forward for me. 

[Iron Curtain]

1 minute ago, PV1973 said:

 

 

I think that throwing in the phrase “highest paid player” isn’t entirely accurate and that he allegedly wanted to stay with us for less than what Bristol ended up coming in with. But I heard from a few people in the club and also that know him, that the contract offer was very low, that it wasn’t a decent league one wage, that it was pushed on him by Flickers and that those talks with Flickers did not go well at all. Fair enough that’s his choice. From what I can gather it’s Flickers that holds all the cards regarding the budget and that his decision is final.
 

Anyway, hopefully we get someone in for that area as I still think we need cover there. But priority has to be a keeper and a new centre forward for me. 

Another way of reading that if you take it from people who aren’t people “he knows”…

We have a budget, his injury record makes him too much of a risk over a certain wage, we offered him what we think he is worth… Gibbo isn’t happy and think the offer is “very low” and that’s what he tells his mates who then go and tell other people and it becomes “fact” based completely on one side of the argument. 

I hope Gibbo has an amazing career, and I loved him in a vale shirt… but we are now in a league where some of the budgets will dwarf ours… including Bristol Rovers. 

If you have a scarce resource, it’s not wise to gamble with it… wages in comparison to our league are scarce… Gibbo was a gamble Rovers were willing to take as they did with Rossiter who has glass legs too.

All the rest is just emotions … thankfully we have a management team that doesn’t manage by emotions. They have proved their way of working works with the promotion we all so desperately wanted. 

The Gibbo gamble may pay off, if may not… but I absolutely can see why they made the decision and in the world of probabilities I would be happy for them to make that decision again.

[Alsager Whites]

Whilst Gibbo had the 'con' of being injury-prone, he had the 'pro' of being both versatile and an excellent leader. We'll do well to sign a player who can excel in both wing-back roles and right central defence. We'll do even better to sign a player with the tenacity, leadership and aggression of Gibbo who can also play those three positions to his standard. He was a future captain.

[Iron Curtain]

Question of interest that I don’t know the answer to… How do the following two concepts fit together:

1. Gibbo unhappy because people earn more than him; and

2. We should break the wage bracket to get people in (which was argued furiously in Jan)

Second question that I dont know the answer to… how many people who are unhappy with #1 were saying we should definitely do #2.

Surely that breaking of the wage bracket would lead to more and more players being unhappy where they rank?

Decisions have knock on consequences… I trust the management team that delivered us the promotion we wanted to be thinking them all through. 

Can we have a signing please… the vacuum of interest making people restless.

KTF

UTV

[Alsager Whites]

Anyways, surely today we see movement of players (or it's getting beyond silly!)? And I don't mean Holden or Agyakwa.

[Alsager Whites]

4 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Question of interest that I don’t know the answer to… How do the following two concepts fit together:

1. Gibbo unhappy because people earn more than him; and

2. We should break the wage bracket to get people in (which was argued furiously in Jan)

Second question that I dont know the answer to… how many people who are unhappy with #1 were saying we should definitely do #2.

Surely that breaking of the wage bracket would lead to more and more players being unhappy where they rank?

Decisions have knock on consequences… I trust the management team that delivered us the promotion we wanted to be thinking them all through. 

Can we have a signing please… the vacuum of interest making people restless.

KTF

UTV

If what I have been told is to be believed, it was more that Gibbo's offer was miles below other players within the salary cap. He didn't want to be the top earner but the offer effectively gave him no choice. I'm a fan of the salary cap but this isn't an example of it's merit as Gibbo would have been quite happy to sit on a wage well within it - Flitcroft didn't value him the same! It wasn't just that others were paid more, but the offer gave him no choice but to look elsewhere (and he had more offers than just Rovers and us). It was that low in base pay.

You can choose to believe this or not but I'm confident it's accurate.

[Iron Curtain]

3 minutes ago, Alsager Whites said:

Whilst Gibbo had the 'con' of being injury-prone, he had the 'pro' of being both versatile and an excellent leader. We'll do well to sign a player who can excel in both wing-back roles and right central defence. We'll do even better to sign a player with the tenacity, leadership and aggression of Gibbo who can also play those three positions to his standard. He was a future captain.

Do you think DC and Flickers didn’t know about those “Pro” qualities?

They did.

They balanced it out against the negatives and came up with an offer that worked for the budget.

I back them to have evaluated that balance more than anyone on here.

I get it… it’s hard and emotional… I wanted Gibbo to stay and be here forever.

People are also talking a lot about us screwing Gibbo over… there were multiple rumours of him off to Sheff U or Charlton before he broke down at Leyton Orient.

He would have ditched us without blinking… you can’t demand loyalty as a one way street.

 

[Iron Curtain]

3 minutes ago, Alsager Whites said:

If what I have been told is to be believed, it was more that Gibbo's offer was miles below other players within the salary cap. He didn't want to be the top earner but the offer effectively gave him no choice. I'm a fan of the salary cap but this isn't an example of it's merit as Gibbo would have been quite happy to sit on a wage well within it - Flitcroft didn't value him the same! It wasn't just that others were paid more, but the offer gave him no choice but to look elsewhere (and he had more offers than just Rovers and us). It was that low in base pay.

You can choose to believe this or not but I'm confident it's accurate.

Sensible approach for an injury prone players who, if his injury reoccurs could be at the end of his career.

As I say… we weren’t willing to take the gamble. Rovers were. Might work, might not. But it was a gamble and someone has to make that call.

I back DC and Flickers given their track record.

[Alsager Whites]

3 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Do you think DC and Flickers didn’t know about those “Pro” qualities?

They did.

They balanced it out against the negatives and came up with an offer that worked for the budget.

I back them to have evaluated that balance more than anyone on here.

I get it… it’s hard and emotional… I wanted Gibbo to stay and be here forever.

People are also talking a lot about us screwing Gibbo over… there were multiple rumours of him off to Sheff U or Charlton before he broke down at Leyton Orient.

He would have ditched us without blinking… you can’t demand loyalty as a one way street.

 

Oh yes I know they would have considered it, I just disagree with their decision and I am entitled to do so! They know more than me but they've got things wrong before and I will trust my own perception on the matter. Arguments from authority are pretty dull and is not the best way of having a debate.

I didn't expect us to keep him based on loyalty as it doesn't exist in the game, but keep him as he was a valuable, versatile and inspirational squad member. I think the offer for him was basically releasing him, but the club didn't want the optics of doing so - so they offered an extension confident in the knowledge he'd have no choice but to walk, maybe him look greedy for doing so. Again, can choose to believe or disbelieve.

[Bob Newtonian]

1 minute ago, Alsager Whites said:

Anyways, surely today we see movement of players (or it's getting beyond silly!)? And I don't mean Holden or Agyakwa.

why is taking our time and making sure we get the right players in "beyond silly" ?

It will take 2-3 really good transfer windows and 18 months to get established in this league and that's if all goes well which certainly isn't guaranteed. The mantra of quality before quantity is now being applied and people don t like it for some reason.

I ve never been so relaxed going into a new season. We are in good hands.... nothing s certain in football or life but if we can stay up this year (its a big ask with our limited resources) we could be looking at 2-3 really exciting seasons to follow.

UTV

[Bob Newtonian]

6 minutes ago, Alsager Whites said:

If what I have been told is to be believed, it was more that Gibbo's offer was miles below other players within the salary cap. He didn't want to be the top earner but the offer effectively gave him no choice. I'm a fan of the salary cap but this isn't an example of it's merit as Gibbo would have been quite happy to sit on a wage well within it - Flitcroft didn't value him the same! It wasn't just that others were paid more, but the offer gave him no choice but to look elsewhere (and he had more offers than just Rovers and us). It was that low in base pay.

You can choose to believe this or not but I'm confident it's accurate.

I dont believe it.....

[Rampant Zebra]

6 minutes ago, Bob Newtonian said:

why is taking our time and making sure we get the right players in "beyond silly" ?

It will take 2-3 really good transfer windows and 18 months to get established in this league and that's if all goes well which certainly isn't guaranteed. The mantra of quality before quantity is now being applied and people don t like it for some reason.

I ve never been so relaxed going into a new season. We are in good hands.... nothing s certain in football or life but if we can stay up this year (its a big ask with our limited resources) we could be looking at 2-3 really exciting seasons to follow.

UTV

You can dress it up any way you want but the fact is that we currently have 14 fit senior players and the season is 10 days away. 

[philmpv]

Anyways, surely today we see movement of players (or it's getting beyond silly!)? And I don't mean Holden or Agyakwa.

Why wouldn't those 2 count as signings?