Black Lives Matter

[Regal Beagle]

On 14/06/2020 at 09:50, Joe B said:

A similar condemnation for the right-wing protests yesterday? No? The ones urinating on police memorials, threatening families having a picnic, and fighting police?

As far as I can see, there have been 2 people in this thread who have differentiated the two lots of violence. You and TheSage.

Last week you used the words "direct action" instead of criminal behaviour, or violence.

This week you seem to now be totally against violent protests.

 

I have not seen a single post on here explaining away the violence from the counter protesters in London over the weekend. No one called it direct action.

22 hours ago, TheSage said:

Yesterday. This idea that both sides are equally to blame is ludicrous.

As far as I was aware the BLM campaign was about racial equality and civil rights. What we saw yesterday was white supremacists, thugs and hooligans targeting the police and deliberately causing mayhem, quite apart from their Nazi salutes and threatening behaviour.

Nothing noble about what their intentions were.

 

How do you know they were white supremacists out of interest?

 

21 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Bearing in mind that the BLM protest in London was called off yesterday - what makes you say that these blokes are BLM protestors rather than just young thugs?

 

They look like black supremacists, thugs and hooligans comitting a racist attack, to me and TheSage.

[Regal Beagle]

15 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Where has "Abolish the police" come from? I may have missed it?

The BLM website doesnt say "Abolish the police" ... It says Defund the police. 

They dont say they want it completely defunded, the phase indicates they want to reduce the funding that goes to the police and have it redirected into community programmes that tackle crime in a different way. For example, the say that the Police in the US have too many duties.

The following is from Wkik, but I have had a look at the sources listed also.

One primary argument for defunding the police focuses on the fact that police officers provide too many services. According to this argument, the United States has had an over-reliance on the police for an unrealistically wide range of roles in the United States.[7][54] For example, many police officers are expected to manage complex personal situations and crises related to homelessness, mental health, and substance abuse. This model may be asking too much of police officers, and some of these services may be better managed by social workers or other community-based professionals.[55][56] Furthermore, police officers may be particularly badly suited for some of these roles. For example, 1 in 4 people who are killed by the police have severe mental illness. If someone is experiencing a mental health crisis, and if there is no emergent threat to themselves or others, trained professionals in mental health may be better suited to manage such situations than police officers. Furthermore, if more funds were diverted to help treat and support those with mental health issues, there could be better outcomes.^[57][58][59]

 

Fair enough if thats the official line.

 

There have been plenty of activists saying that they want to absolish the police and the CHAZ 'settlement' has explicitly banned police too.

 

My point still stands though - Black Lives Matter is a far left organisation with goals that far surpass 'equal rights' or 'anti racism'.

[Iron Curtain]

11 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Fair enough if thats the official line.

 

There have been plenty of activists saying that they want to absolish the police and the CHAZ 'settlement' has explicitly banned police too.

 

My point still stands though - Black Lives Matter is a far left organisation with goals that far surpass 'equal rights' or 'anti racism'.

So for clarity, BLM dont want to "Abolish the police" and that's just a scaremongering that anti BLM have come up with. Im not saying thats how you have used it, but you may have fallen for it,

It comes down to the same point I make about your posts all the time..... The level of research and demanded evidence is very different when it's a point you are making vs someone else.

You have just claimed that BLM want to "Abolish the police"... If someone else had done something similar you would have leapt all over them. That's not their aim, in fact their official website says they want to make sure the police can focus on doing the their job by removing peripheral scope from their remit because they are not best placed to do so.

Did the BLM organisation set up the CHAZ settlement? Was it one of their goals? Was it something the movement decided they should action... or was it people who lived their that did it who support the ethos of ensuring Black people are not treated as second class.

Is your "Demand for evidence" yet again failing you due to the biased way you use it? Who knows... it would be nice to see you use it consistently though. 

[Jacko51]

3 hours ago, darren1810 said:

Thus demonstrating the stupidity of some Toon regulars, prepared to go to London when exactly the same thing was happening in their own city. Bizarre behaviour.

Bizarre indeed, which probably means they were mackems!

Many of the "statue supporters" who descended on London at the weekend were part of the Democratic Football Lads Alliance, a group who have very right wing views.  This is the group which had planned the meeting.  Their plans were supported by the lovely Yaxley-Lennon - he posted the following call to arms: “If you’re a lad or you call yourself a lad, and you’re a football lad and you go to football and you give a <ovf censored> at all about our country, our history, our culture, our identity. I expect you are going to be in London next Saturday.”  I suspect we all understand the use of the term "lad" in this context.  It appears that coach loads of lads/firms came from all over the country.  These are the sort of individuals who intimidated a family having a picnic in one of the London parks.  It strikes me that their sole intention was going to London for a punch up - no football probably means they are feeling a little bit bored at the moment.  You only have to look at the make up of the groups in Trafalgar Square who were confronting the police to see that these were not on a Sunday School outing.

 

[TheSage]

Geo, knife crime has increased by 7% nationally. London alone, I don't know. But these are ONS figures. Up nearly 50% since 2010.

Bear in mind we've been in lock down for nearly 3 months and everyone has been at home so crime will fall during those weeks. 

Nearly all the trouble on Saturday was caused by the far right, in part orchestrated by Britain First/BNP and with the sole intention of causing trouble. 

The statues were boarded up and shielded by the police. So what on earth were these white supremacist thugs trying to achieve? 

From what I can tell, the hero of the weekend (policemen and women apart) was a black man, Patrick Hutchinson.

 

 

 

[Joe B]

16 hours ago, philpvfc said:

 

If the BLM had cancelled their protests how come there was reports of BLM protests in the capital and how come there was BLM supporters fighting in Parliament square and Waterloo. You might think they are totally innocent but you’d be wrong.

I could leave my house now, shout All Lives Matter (even though I think the saying is daft) and commit some public disorder.

Would that therefore be a representation of the All Lives Matter movement?

[Regal Beagle]

1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

So for clarity, BLM dont want to "Abolish the police" and that's just a scaremongering that anti BLM have come up with. Im not saying thats how you have used it, but you may have fallen for it,

It comes down to the same point I make about your posts all the time..... The level of research and demanded evidence is very different when it's a point you are making vs someone else.

You have just claimed that BLM want to "Abolish the police"... If someone else had done something similar you would have leapt all over them. That's not their aim, in fact their official website says they want to make sure the police can focus on doing the their job by removing peripheral scope from their remit because they are not best placed to do so.

Did the BLM organisation set up the CHAZ settlement? Was it one of their goals? Was it something the movement decided they should action... or was it people who lived their that did it who support the ethos of ensuring Black people are not treated as second class.

Is your "Demand for evidence" yet again failing you due to the biased way you use it? Who knows... it would be nice to see you use it consistently though. 

Haha I wondered when you would come for me in this thread, I'm surprised it has taken this long.

 

It's a strange post that is predicated on the assertion that "BLM dont want to "Abolish the police" and that's just a scaremongering that anti BLM have come up with"

 

I guess the following must be anti-BLM stooges then:

 

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/06/04/vox-writer-apologizes-for-criticizing-calls-to-abolish-the-police/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html

 

Your post makes very little sense without that incorrect assertion. And even if it did, it doesn't change the point I was making.

 

 

[Howjy04]

According to my very bright grandson,who starts high school in September,hopefully,he has received  NO school education re-racial tolerance,police brutality,the appalling slave trade and the benefits of all living together in peace and harmony.Good job he has a brain and knows already what’s right and wrong and a grandad who can guide him.

[Howjy04]

9 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Haha I wondered when you would come for me in this thread, I'm surprised it has taken this long.

 

It's a strange post that is predicated on the assertion that "BLM dont want to "Abolish the police" and that's just a scaremongering that anti BLM have come up with"

 

I guess the following must be anti-BLM stooges then:

 

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/06/04/vox-writer-apologizes-for-criticizing-calls-to-abolish-the-police/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html

 

Your post makes very little sense without that incorrect assertion. And even if it did, it doesn't change the point I was making.

 

 

Some of them are clearly old Corbyn rally pics,

[Howjy04]

Pi55 artist jailed for 14 days.16 pints and hadn’t a clue what he was doing.

[Iron Curtain]

26 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Haha I wondered when you would come for me in this thread, I'm surprised it has taken this long.

 

It's a strange post that is predicated on the assertion that "BLM dont want to "Abolish the police" and that's just a scaremongering that anti BLM have come up with"

 

I guess the following must be anti-BLM stooges then:

 

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/06/04/vox-writer-apologizes-for-criticizing-calls-to-abolish-the-police/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html

 

Your post makes very little sense without that incorrect assertion. And even if it did, it doesn't change the point I was making.

 

 

My post makes perfect sense... When you base your entire “moral judgement” on evidence and facts, it’s best to apply it equally and in an unbiased fashion.

If someone else had posted those you would demand proof they speak on behalf of BLM and it’s written stated goals. You wouldnt just accept they have taken the message an interpreted it themselves.

Your beef was against BLM the organisation as a political movement... applying the standards of research you demand would have shown the organisation doesn’t call for the abolishment of the police.

Its just interesting to see which causes you apply your moral demand for the upmost research and facts about... Norman, Farage, Cummings, Boris.

And those you don’t... in this case BLM.

[Iron Curtain]

36 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html

 

Classic case in point...

This article is written by Mariano Keba.

If you had read to the bottom of the article you would see...  Mariame Kaba (@prisonculture) is the director of Project NIA, a grass-roots group that works to end youth incarceration, and an anti-criminalization organizer.
 

So not BLM. I would have thought your “morals based on facts and evidence” would have picked that up? No?

Consistency Regal, that’s all I’m asking for!!

[geosname]

1 hour ago, TheSage said:

Geo, knife crime has increased by 7% nationally. London alone, I don't know. But these are ONS figures. Up nearly 50% since 2010.

Bear in mind we've been in lock down for nearly 3 months and everyone has been at home so crime will fall during those weeks. 

Nearly all the trouble on Saturday was caused by the far right, in part orchestrated by Britain First/BNP and with the sole intention of causing trouble. 

The statues were boarded up and shielded by the police. So what on earth were these white supremacist thugs trying to achieve? 

From what I can tell, the hero of the weekend (policemen and women apart) was a black man, Patrick Hutchinson.

 

 

 

I don't support extremist action from any side mate.

Why did they go? Why did the donkey cross the road? Because someone was kicking the ass? My guess would be a ruck with someone.... anyone.

Stupid and pointless, violence usually is.

[Joe B]

33 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

According to my very bright grandson,who starts high school in September,hopefully,he has received  NO school education re-racial tolerance,police brutality,the appalling slave trade and the benefits of all living together in peace and harmony.Good job he has a brain and knows already what’s right and wrong and a grandad who can guide him.

History at primary schools usually doesn't get a proper look-in; its lumped under 'topic', which includes Geography and other non-core subjects.

Unfortunately the primacy on getting good SATs in Y6 means some students go through Y6 basically focusing on Maths and English, with little given to other subjects.

Luckily the reforms to the KS3 curriculum a few years ago gives teachers massive freedom to teach what they see best; slavery/empire is often covered in the 'ideas, political power, industry and empire: Britain, 1745-1901' topic. Hopefully things improve for your grandson over the next couple of years.

[Iron Curtain]

1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

I guess the following must be anti-BLM stooges then:

 

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/06/04/vox-writer-apologizes-for-criticizing-calls-to-abolish-the-police/

 

 

 

This article is another example... Its just an individual apologising for the way he interpreted signs he saw on social media.

No comment from the BLM about "Abolishing the police" being one of their goals... because it isnt. If someone had used this article to argue against you, you would laugh it off as being a pathetic attempt.

Face it Regal, when you want to side with something (Norman, Boris, Cummings, Farage), you demand the highest level of scrutiny and fact checking and evidence. But your ability or willingness to do that consistently shows you up.