Black Lives Matter

[Davebrad]

1 hour ago, Andyregs said:

You’ve managed to be more critical on this thread to Jeremy Corbyn for not responding to accusations of racism, than imperialism, mein kampf and Racist football hooligans.
 

is it illegal to burn the union flag? Not condoning it, but shouldn’t the police use reasonable actions concerning the crime being committed. We wouldn’t want policing the way they do in the US. 

Agreed.

point 1, I am more critical about jc because he could have been our prime minister, had he done what he should have done,    also  that  part of your statement is the only one that concerns me...

point 2,  also technically  it is, if it is not your own, and the young girl involved couldn't even light it, but i'm old fashioned enough to be offended by her complete disrespect of climbing on the cenotaph and trying to damaging that symbol of our respect. I wonder if she even knows or is bothered that it could be a coloured persons body lying there that we respect...

[Andyregs]

6 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

point 1, I am more critical about jc because he could have been our prime minister, had he done what he should have done,    also  that  part of your statement is the only one that concerns me...

point 2,  also technically  it is, if it is not your own, and the young girl involved couldn't even light it, but i'm old fashioned enough to be offended by her complete disrespect of climbing on the cenotaph and trying to damaging that symbol of our respect. I wonder if she even knows or is bothered that it could be a coloured persons body lying there that we respect...

I’d argue that what does and doesn’t offend you is not the best guide for our police to use. It’s a bit erratic to put it politely. 
 

[Howjy04]

2 hours ago, Andyregs said:

On a positive, people like to take digs at stoke on Trent, but we have a better history on this issue than most.

 

I mentioned this a few days ago.Josiah Wedgwood.

[Andyregs]

37 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

I mentioned this a few days ago.Josiah Wedgwood.

You kind of thing to be celebrated with a statue. 

[TheSage]

There are limits and responsibilities on freedom of speech. It is not acceptable (or lawful) for anyone to say anything they like. You have to bear in mind the impact of what you say and the harm it may cause. That's all I'm saying.

I don't think it's acceptable for someone to make inflammatory, racist comments, or discuss their sordid child sex crimes, or whatever. If you do, then we vehemently disagree but the law would be on my side.

The law isn't just regulated by the transient government but based on history and past cases. The judiciary is independent from the government and that's how it should be.

I quote. Under the Human Rights Act, “everyone has the right to freedom of expression” in the UK but this freedom “may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society”. That's all I'm saying.

[TheSage]

I don't know enough about Wedgwood to comment from a position of great knowledge but it does appear as if he was one of the more enlightened men at that time.

What I did hear today was that many 19th century slave owners were paid millions in compensation by the government for ending their activities/atrocities and we only finished paying this to them around 2013. An amazing, unknown fact to me.

[Davebrad]

3 hours ago, Andyregs said:

I’d argue that what does and doesn’t offend you is not the best guide for our police to use. It’s a bit erratic to put it politely. 
 

my point 1, about jc. or my point 2, does that girls actions not offend or even troubles you?

[Andyregs]

2 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

my point 1, about jc. or my point 2, does that girls actions not offend or even troubles you?

All your points. 

1 hour ago, TheSage said:

What I did hear today was that many 19th century slave owners were paid millions in compensation by the government for ending their activities/atrocities and we only finished paying this to them around 2013. An amazing, unknown fact to me.

I don’t think the family’s of slave owners were being paid still. I think we were paying off the debt from borrowing to pay it off. Still horrific though. 

[geosname]

5 hours ago, TheSage said:

There are limits and responsibilities on freedom of speech. It is not acceptable (or lawful) for anyone to say anything they like. You have to bear in mind the impact of what you say and the harm it may cause. That's all I'm saying.

I don't think it's acceptable for someone to make inflammatory, racist comments, or discuss their sordid child sex crimes, or whatever. If you do, then we vehemently disagree but the law would be on my side.

The law isn't just regulated by the transient government but based on history and past cases. The judiciary is independent from the government and that's how it should be.

I quote. Under the Human Rights Act, “everyone has the right to freedom of expression” in the UK but this freedom “may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society”. That's all I'm saying.

This is a complicated area of "law"

Laws aren't usually designed to stop you doing anything, they are normally the parameters and consequences prescribed if you do. You shall not rob is not a law.... if you do rob these are the consequences.... is.

Courts don't make laws, judges don't make laws, police don't make laws, parliament create acts and statutes to sit alongside common law.

One of the biggest problems with the law is inequality. Everyone should be equal under the law. Whether a judge, politician, police officer or commoner.

If Joe public strikes Jim public several offences could be directed at Joe,  battery,  abh, gbh,  assault etc. The chances are Joe would be arrested on the spot, cuffed and carted off to detention and charged...... if Joe was a police officer in uniform would his colleagues follow the same procedure?.... the chances are, for any action to be taken against Joe policeman a member of the public would have to make a complaint.... which would have to go through the process of police investigating themselves and be swept under the blue carpet.... unless there was video evidence. If there was video evidence Joe would probably be put on restricted duty, with pay but not charged with a criminal offence..... the thin blue line?

What surprises me is given all the CCTV cameras no one ever sees and reports offences by police.... or perhaps they do.... but then who do they report it to?

Unless EVERONE is equal under the law the law can be/is used as a tool of suppression and oppression. 

[Wrex]

7 hours ago, Andyregs said:

You kind of thing to be celebrated with a statue. 

Josiah Wedgewood has statues I think at Stoke train station and one at the Wedgewood factory believe it or not.

Stanley Matthews has a statue in Hanley and one outside the bet365 stadium. He broke South Africa's apartheid laws to coach a bunch of black fellas, "Stan's Men".

Shame they picked Coventry over us for city of culture 2021, could have celebrated that fact.

[Andyregs]

3 hours ago, Wrex said:

Josiah Wedgewood has statues I think at Stoke train station and one at the Wedgewood factory believe it or not.

Stanley Matthews has a statue in Hanley and one outside the bet365 stadium. He broke South Africa's apartheid laws to coach a bunch of black fellas, "Stan's Men".

Shame they picked Coventry over us for city of culture 2021, could have celebrated that fact.

I know. I meant that it’s not statues that are the problem,, and some things should be celebrated. 

[geosname]

 

[TheSage]

Some shocking events over the recent past.

Let's hope and pray that today goes off with the minimum of fuss. It sounds as if London might be a trouble spot with both BLM supporters and right wing groups intent on marching.

[Davebrad]

3 hours ago, Andyregs said:

I know. I meant that it’s not statues that are the problem,, and some things should be celebrated. 

aye, there's the rub, who decides...

[Fosse69]

38 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

aye, there's the rub, who decides...

History is written by the winners, only later do the full facts emerge.