Grammar schools

[JOHNNYAITCH]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37303348

 

Did anyone here go thru the 11+ grammar/secondary modern system? I just missed the 11+ and went to Ball Green high which previously was where you went if you failed the 11+ (so I'm lead to understand). I know people that went thru it , passing the 11+ and going to grammar school, and they reckon it gave them the chance to be the best they could be. it's difficult for anyone that didn't pass and go to a grammar school to say if they suffered or not...but I've no regrets re what was provided at Ball Green

 

I can see the merits of grammar schools as long as those that don't go are not condemned to a cr@ppy second class education in the alternatives just cos they failed a test when they were 11.

 

There is currently back door selection based on parental wealth/income as in places it costs a fortune to live within the catchment area of a top comp.

[Howjy04]

I went to Hanley High in the 60s after passing the 11+.I agree the standards need to be improved elsewhere but Grammar schools are there more for kids who want to learn.There could be a facility for retaking the 11+ if failed first time?It had nothing to do with wealth when I went to a Grammar school.

[Fosse69]

I went to Hanley High in the 60s after passing the 11+.I agree the standards need to be improved elsewhere but Grammar schools are there more for kids who want to learn.There could be a facility for retaking the 11+ if failed first time?It had nothing to do with wealth when I went to a Grammar school.

The wealth bit in those days, as today, would be the pupils who had extra private tuition or went to a private prep school to improve their chances of passing the 11+, over pupils who just went to school or relied on their parents to coach them. The other difference in those days was that boys and girls went to separate schools mainly, whereas in a common 11+, girls would have an advantage since they tend to do better in exams at that age.

[Warren]

I failed my 11 plus and went to a secondary modern school. Three things happened. The first is I went to a rubbish school and was scheduled eventually to do CSE exams at age 16 albeit in the end I did O levels. The second is that throughout my teenage years I felt second class intellectually and that in its own right harmed my confidence to do academic subjects. A third thing is that I never learned at school how to study properly and never put in place key building blocks like spelling well. I came from a non academic family and those skills not passed on by my parents.

 

I believe I started to develop intellectually when I was about 14 and have markedly improved ever since. Today I have a masters degree, I am an accountant and I have other professional qualifications and continue CPD. My son, who also failed his 11 plus is now, aged 30, on the 3rd year of his post gradual medical degree at Nottingham and will be a doctor hopefully by 2018.

 

I also learned, living in a grammar school area now, that many kids are getting to grammar school because of tutoring. That was probably true when I was young as well. So, far from promoting social mobility grammar schools get most of the population graded as second class and destroy confidence in kids. The grammar schools vacuum up the best teachers and condemn most children to second rate schools. A bit like football, a pupil in a comprehensive school can work towards the top streams or specialize in other ways. But when the top stream is actually in another school that aspiration and opportunity is out of reach.

 

Therefore I am as opposed to this as it is possible to get - and I am a member of the Conservative Party. Politically, May might be doing this to placate and get support from the back benches, but she is risking her reputation.

[Warren]

I went to Hanley High in the 60s after passing the 11+.I agree the standards need to be improved elsewhere but Grammar schools are there more for kids who want to learn.There could be a facility for retaking the 11+ if failed first time?It had nothing to do with wealth when I went to a Grammar school.

 

This doesn't work. The school spaces have been taken.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Fairynuff..I'd counter that a close relative had a very different experience. Raised on Norton estate to parents who were both manual workers with absolutely no history of education in the family, passing his 11+ and going on to grammar school filled him with confidence and caused him to be exposed to the arts and education which have been the making of him. He's a highly accomplished musician and a Doctor of Education now.

 

Would that have happened otherwise? Who can say for certain but nevertheless his 11+ success and grammar school education gave him the confidence to do what he has done as well as the education needed to go on to what he has done.

 

It's a door that swings both ways.

[Jacko51]

This doesn't work. The school spaces have been taken.

 

My brother failed his 11+ but retook it via the 13+ and ended up moving from a Secondary Modern School to a Technical School. He became a metalwork/woodwork teacher then packed it in and moved gradually into his own business making bike frames. He now runs classes for those who want to build their own frame and charges them a fortune for doing it! This is him: http://www.daveyatescycles.co.uk/

 

I was fortunate enough to pass the 11+ and go to the local grammar school. Both of us came from very working class backgrounds - my Mam didn't work 9not may did in those days!) and Dad was a painter in the shipyards on the Tyne.

 

I spent my career teaching in a comprehensive school. In my experience, a good comprehensive is the best deal for kids of all abilities.

[Fosse69]

What we need is a system that gives every child the chance to do their best, easily said I know. It wont always be academic but suited to their skills and interests. How many children are never inspired at school? Do we spend enough on education compared to other nations of similar wealth and economies?

[For Us All]

I failed my 11+ and went to secondary school where I got stuck in,got another chance and managed to pass my 13+.Had a choice of Hanley High or Stanfield Technical High and chose the latter,mainly because it was nearer to home and secondly because I wanted to go into engineering.In those days the boys went to the two High schools mentioned and the girls went to Brownhill High in Tunstall.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Interesting stories...for me there are pluses and minuses to grammar schools. The devil is in the detail but I appreciate some are against the principle of selective schools.

[For Us All]

Could be a bit awkward for some Labour MP's to oppose this when they send their kids to either a private or grammar school?

[PVFC764]

Our daughter goes to a Grammar school and there are certainly a lot of very posh and rich parents there. But there are also families from a working class background there as well and the kids mix together. They don't see the divide that adults seem to see. She took the 11+ and passed and was offered a place. We have never had any issues at all and the school treat them all the same. The head teacher told the kids on the first day - they were the top 10% of all the Lincolnshire schools around here and over the next several years they will be worked hard, but will have fun and do things that other schools would not do. This is certainly the case we have found out.

 

The one thing they do is work the kids very hard and expect results. If the kids don't work then they find themselves being warned about their attitude to work. We were told recently by a teacher that had left, they teach at A* to B level, where as the other schools teach at C level, hence why they work them hard and the kids have a lot of homework to do each night.

 

This mind set does mean that there is more pressure on the kids to produce results and live up to the reputation of the school.

[Fosse69]

Our daughter goes to a Grammar school and there are certainly a lot of very posh and rich parents there. But there are also families from a working class background there as well and the kids mix together. They don't see the divide that adults seem to see. She took the 11+ and passed and was offered a place. We have never had any issues at all and the school treat them all the same. The head teacher told the kids on the first day - they were the top 10% of all the Lincolnshire schools around here and over the next several years they will be worked hard, but will have fun and do things that other schools would not do. This is certainly the case we have found out.

 

The one thing they do is work the kids very hard and expect results. If the kids don't work then they find themselves being warned about their attitude to work. We were told recently by a teacher that had left, they teach at A* to B level, where as the other schools teach at C level, hence why they work them hard and the kids have a lot of homework to do each night.

 

This mind set does mean that there is more pressure on the kids to produce results and live up to the reputation of the school.

I assume they select all their pupils, thus pick off the academic ones capable of being pushed hard. Good luck to your daughter by the way.

[PVFC764]

I assume they select all their pupils, thus pick off the academic ones capable of being pushed hard. Good luck to your daughter by the way.

 

Credit to the school no they don't pick and choose pupils - If you pass the 11+ then you can go to the school no matter what your parents background is. However, if more kids pass the 11+ than places available at the school, then they can only take kids to that level. Some of our daughters friends went to the experience days they run while they are at primary school and they said no to going after seeing the school and how they teach and they had passed the 11+.

 

Not sure of other grammar schools, but it is down to the kids ability. They run their 6th form the same way - they tell you what they expect and it is up to the kids to perform.

[Fosse69]

Credit to the school no they don't pick and choose pupils - If you pass the 11+ then you can go to the school no matter what your parents background is. However, if more kids pass the 11+ than places available at the school, then they can only take kids to that level. Some of our daughters friends went to the experience days they run while they are at primary school and they said no to going after seeing the school and how they teach and they had passed the 11+.

 

Not sure of other grammar schools, but it is down to the kids ability. They run their 6th form the same way - they tell you what they expect and it is up to the kids to perform.

What I was getting at is it a mixed private pupils and 11+ admission. As you say there will always be pupils who prefer other schools for various reasons, far better to find out beforehand to allow others to go instead.