UK gains £20bn from European migrants

[carl]

I think the point of the thread was to demonstrate that the popular view that immigration is a drain on the public purse is largely a fallacy.

 

Even the OBR has said that in order to reduce the budget deficit, net migration would have to go up, not down.

 

There are too many variables attached when you debate migration. I think thousands of voters will disagree with Migration being positive for the electorate when you consider the vast amount of monies spent on just getting migrants English skills up to a basic standard.

 

Furthermore, the argument that migrants are 'cleverer' than unemployed English people who can command good English skills is absurd-the Educational, Health, Housing costs are all omitted from the report-the less able to realise this are unlikely to be swayed to being behind the EU project whilst only people involved in running Business will want to stay within the EU. The rest, you will find, will oppose it.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

In a lot of occupations there is a requirement for every employee to understand their part in maintaining a duty of care in Health and safety situations, so you are totally correct to dismiss their applications and it cannot be considered as Discriminative-you were totally within your rights.

 

If the candidate/employee is the best person for the job and you want to employ them give them the instructions etc re H&S in their language..job done. If you are unable to determine if they are the best person for the job (perhaps becasue of language difficulties but could be other reasons, can't verify qualifications or get references for example) then you should not employ them, same as for any candidate.

 

And in the real world, this issue of safety in the workplace is a genuine concern where employing migrants who have little English understanding.

 

Absolutely there are concerns around safety etc and it's up to the employer/recruiter to ensure they are addressed as part of the recruitment process..if unable to address them then don't employ the candidate.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

There are too many variables attached when you debate migration. I think thousands of voters will disagree with Migration being positive for the electorate when you consider the vast amount of monies spent on just getting migrants English skills up to a basic standard.

 

How much is spent?

 

Personally i think the issues are that cheap EU labour drives down wages, the strain put on services and communities, Brits being deprived of 'help' in favour or EU nationals and the general social effects..I don't think money spent on teaching them English will be seen as a major issue

 

Furthermore, the argument that migrants are 'cleverer' than unemployed English people who can command good English skills is absurd

 

No on has claimed that they are cleverer than anyone

 

-the Educational, Health, Housing costs are all omitted from the report-

 

We know that..the report does not claim to address these

 

the less able to realise this are unlikely to be swayed to being behind the EU project whilst only people involved in running Business will want to stay within the EU. The rest, you will find, will oppose it.

 

I think people mainly will see this report for what it is..a report on one aspect of immigration to the UK..most will know that there is much more to consider..as long as people get as much info as they can in making their mind up then I've no problems with a report such as this

 

I'm not against the 'EU project' and I don't run a business. We all have a stake in business in the UK..it's business that creates jobs, generates revenue, pays tax, pays employees who then pay tax..if the EU is good for businesses then it's good for all of us. But there is much reform needed to make it work better for us...not least immigration control

[cheshirevaliant]

only people involved in running Business will want to stay within the EU. The rest, you will find, will oppose it.

 

Wrong.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Right..in that you are right that the aforementioned statement is wrong

 

The idea that the 'ordinary' working bloke cannot be in favour of the EU is ridiculous

[carl]

Right..in that you are right that the aforementioned statement is wrong

 

The idea that the 'ordinary' working bloke cannot be in favour of the EU is ridiculous

 

And so the circle begins...(again)

 

I cannot see from an economic, movement, labour, or International related point of view the positives of being in Europe, except that we ultimately have members of a institution who were not elected by anyone in the UK to dictate our way of life and laws on domestic affairs. And you know as well as I do EU law overrules domestic law.

 

It's about having the right to a democracy- we have not got that with the EU

[carl]

Wrong.

 

Wrong in that we don't have the right to elect people from the EU hierarchy out of office? It's about having a democracy.

[cheshirevaliant]

Wrong in that we don't have the right to elect people from the EU hierarchy out of office? It's about having a democracy.

 

No, wrong in that you said everybody who doesn't own a business supports leaving the EU. That is incorrect, however you dress it up.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

And so the circle begins...(again)

 

I cannot see from an economic, movement, labour, or International related point of view the positives of being in Europe,

 

Brits can freely go and work anywhwre in the EU and many do..there you go at least one positive off the top of my head. Businesses wanting to recruit someone from the EU can do so without all the red tape and cost that used to be associated with such a thing..there you go..two positives.

 

except that we ultimately have members of a institution who were not elected by anyone in the UK to dictate our way of life and laws on domestic affairs.

 

What do they dictate about or way of life? Again though I ask what is our way of life?

 

And you know as well as I do EU law overrules domestic law.

 

In some cases that is true and in some cases rightly so

 

It's about having the right to a democracy- we have not got that with the EU

 

I agree that an unelected bureaucracy is not a good thing and some decisions are made by the unelected, they are empowered by treaty and that needs reforming

[Paul6754]

Not heard of a vat of wine? ;)

 

Good point....but I was on the wrong thread!!!!

[Warren]

EU Bill

 

As an accountant / auditor I have audited the use use of European Regional Development Funds, Urban Programme, European Integration Fund, European Refugee Fund grants and how they have been applied in delivering projects and related objectives. The thing about the EU, its strength and weakness, is that it is an input focused detailed rule based organisation. The rules, the rules, the rules. There is no scope for flexibility. What has played out is the application of the rules and, even as a likely Tory voter, it frustrates me big time to listen to George Osbourne. The rules have been applied. We need to pay the bill in line with the treaties of membership in the moment and reconcile the UK position in the EU in due course.

[carl]

No, wrong in that you said everybody who doesn't own a business supports leaving the EU. That is incorrect, however you dress it up.

 

I should have possibly used correct terminology-the 'Majority' of non-business people will want to leave the EU. I haven't met anyone yet that doesn't and I'm talking hundreds of people I meet through work or social means.

 

I would bet my life savings I could go to any UK high street and find more people who want to leave than people who want to stay in-it's just common sense-the EU has been nothing but a bugbear on the country and needs disposing of.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

I bet Popey votes for UKIP as well...;)

 

I'd be surprised but you never know. Why do you think he does?

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Is he prepared to sleep in my shed?

 

Maybe, a should in East Devon is definitely a step up from Sneyd Green! ;)

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Wrong.

 

Agreed.