Whats Going On?

[carl]

After yesterdays revelations about the "Lifers" season tickets being cancelled, i have asked myself the question all day long.

 

I am truly baffled by the decision and i can only presume it is finance orientated.

 

Like others have stated, its 4k a year extra income.

When compared to players and staffs salary this pails into significance.

 

I was and still am a Norman Smurthwaite fan. I feel he has done some great things for our club by my oh my, when he gets one wrong he seems to get it wrong big style. And here we go again.

His petty outburst last week in reply to a thread on here was unprofessional at very best. Why he gets embroiled, i do not know.

However, his silence is deafening towards the cancellation of the lifers season tickets.

 

These are people who are the heart and soul of Port Vale Football Club.

They were there long before him.

They will be there long after him.

100+ people and i would half understand. But 15? Come on Norman. Get a grip man.

 

At a time when we should be really looking forward to the new season he goes and alienates supporters again. I really arent sure whether it is his arrogance, his pettiness, or a business decision.

If its the latter, we have huge problems and questions need to be answered.

 

It seems that season upon season we havent a pot to **** in. New chairman, same cry for folk to turn out and then the moans and groans when we dont meet their expectations.

I have said on many occasions that it seems he hasnt done his research. We rarely got 4000 season ticket holders when we were in the championship without a premier league club down the road, so where is the proof we should be getting that now?

 

There is growing concern amongst supporters i speak to about his actions. They are mind boggling. At a time when we should be "Building the Buzz" it seems Mr. Smurthwaite is determined to put a dampener on all things Port Vale.

Im all for being realistic but the man is borderline suicidal with some of his comments.

 

Its come to a point where im dumbfounded as to whats going on. I cant make head nor tail of his actions over these season tickets. I also dont understand how other clubs with half our gates can thrive and move forward, yet little Port. Vale who averaged 6500 last season, and dont exactly charge a bag of sweets to enter each week, are skint yet again it seems.

 

Something is fundamentally wrong at the club. Without a doubt.

 

But its little things i think we miss out on.

We have 13000 empty seats each week and this man denies 15 people who put their money, time and effort into saving our club, a season ticket for life.

The gesture should stay. Its such an awful decision.

Our ten game season ticket kicks in. Norman, il tell you now, you wont get 100 people on it. Why? Theres no incentive. It still works out around 19 quid a game! You can get a ticket next year for 21 quid in advance. Wow. Big saving that is! Miss one of the ten and you arent gaining anything!

Why didnt we get it at 150 quid a game and get a huge marketing campaign going. With anyone who bought one at that price entering a draw at christmas with the chance to win a ST next year?

 

Remember Mike Aldridge and the target 5000 campaign? Huge success.

Unfortunately without marketing and a decent price these will not sell.

 

Its a lack of knowledge for the customer base that is severely lacking but more importantly its Norman Smurthwaites ignorance and distain towards his supporters, his loyalest of supporters which stinks for me.

 

So Norman, should you read this, let me tell you that after months and months of backing you over most things, im disgusted and dismayed with your recent actions and whilst i should be buzzing for the new season, buying the new shirt, spending money i shouldnt in the club shop, you have (and not for the first time) made me feel no excitement whatsoever for the coming season.

 

And i would put my life on it that im not the only one.

 

Sort it. And quick. Get someone in to do your PR work as, quite frankly, youre way out of your depth regarding your communication, and more worringly after what ive read about the lifers season tickets, your even further out of your depth regarding decision making for my football club.

 

If your that hard up for 4k a year, we may as well pack in now.

 

Paul Machin.

 

Very well put. Somehow I don't think Norman has woken up to the fact the club is situated in a pretty deprived area and admission prices, certainly, need to come down. £18 per game on a ten match season ticket is NO saving.

 

Where is the club going we have had four players walk out in the summer- it's a disgrace.

[ultravaliant]

Lets face facts,he has only alienated 14 or 15 people.These people paid their monies and took their chance.If the likes of tinvalefan had renewed their season tickets perhaps just perhaps there would not be these cost cutting measures.All you ever get on this site is constant bleating by people who must wear rose tinted glasses.The way forward Norman is to live way above our means you pump another 2 million of your money into the club and when things go pear shape,administration here we come.Such short memories from messiah to muppet in two short years why do you bother,sell up and let the keyboard warriors give some other person hard times.

 

 

I reckon the ill-feeling caused by his actions will have alienated considerably more

[Yukon]

Your first sentence says enough.

Nobody is asking for 2 million to be pumped in.

I am far from a "Keyboard warrior".

I do not wear Rose tinted glasses and i continue to be a fan of Normans.

 

Unfortunately he has this very, very wrong.

 

Sadly, you cannot see that.

What a shame.

 

Don't bite Spunkers, he's been trolling the other thread too.

 

In respect of your original post, my views aren't as extreme as yours but I totally agree with the sentiment. Jean knows the reasoning behind the decision to end the lifetime season tickets and she is keeping it too herself, which is her prerogative and a credit too her because I bet you could pick a thousand holes in it. My guess is it's an every penny counts sort of affair but like you say, there's a bigger picture to consider and the knock on effect could be a lot worse.

 

If we are going to turn into a circus every summer then you have to question the motives behind the nonsense coming out of the club, I doubt it's merely pre-season boredom

[vale in the blood]

Norman seriously needs a PR,as time and again, we have these negative comments.Supposed to be starting a buzz,playing on positives,but no,not at the vale.

Dont understand what his reasons are behind the lifetimers.

[onestepatatime]

Spunkers, brave man. Your op is excellent. I have a like mind in everything you stated.

 

I am Vale through and through, like you, like the 15. I am now very disheartened and actually sick inside at the daily apparent nonsense that is coming from our Owner, who I have backed 100% so far. It does seem that now for every crumb of good news emanating from the club, we get a downer almost immediately in the form of pretty nonsensical garbage from the top.

 

I admire and respect the entire 15 for what they decided to do with their hard earned cash many years ago. I, too was going to join them but my missus had things to say on deciding where money ought to be best put to use! These fans are TRUE fans of the Vale and to even think about alienating them is absurd, but to actually embarrass and kick them in the teeth is beyond comprehension.

 

I have had time to digest and ponder for what reason Norm chose to do this at this time. I, like you can come up with NO constructive reason at all.

 

I purchase a season ticket and I buy goods etc on a regular basis in watching the Vale home and away. I consider myself to be a Valiant and believe me I have taken loads of flak year in year out from colleagues and friends and family for following my club and trying to educate those that may have thought Vale are not worth the time of day. I love Vale and am not ashamed to admit that it's almost an obsession with me now in my latest years of life. I will continue my ways of supporting Vale I assume until my dying day BUT boy oh boy mate I am seriously starting to feel that Vale don't care, they don't listen to their fanbase, they believe they can ride rough shod over their most faithful followers and that has to be addressed because the actions of Norm in this one incident alone most certainly have turned away so many people who might just have been cajoled into becoming regulars at Vale, if we had consolidated and steadily progressed the Club in every way, including most importantly the PR.

 

I know there are those on here who will mock what you and I state and they will say we have rose tinted glasses etc, etc:boring: we have to accept they are entitled to their opinions but in my book the real crux of the apathy and unrealistic manner in the way Norm appears to be floundering his way through is what is wrong. Vale should now be on the up after a fabulous couple of years but we still seem to be in the dark ages in terms of building a feel good factor to everything surrounding the club.

 

Keep the faith old mate, I am seriously trying to remain positive but find it more and more difficult to convince myself that it is worth the hassle.

[Daddy Pig]

Come on everybody. I know that we are all a little disappointed with the PR own goals and gaffs that are surrounding the club at present, and in truth have done so for the last 10 years! My own thoughts are that whilst NS has, and continues to make mistakes, that some of our downheartedness is actually down to the many years of fighting which has left everyone tired of any shenanigans. It also meant that with new owners in place, we hoped for nothing more than a quiet life supporting our club. This expectation magnifies every little (or big) mistake at the club. The simple facts are that we are run on a shoestring budget behind the scenes which means that we always seem to lack that professional edge that most of us want to see. A lot of the mistakes are easily avoidable and do tend to get put right, but after the damage has been done.

 

Whilst I totally comprehend everything that the OP has stated, I cannot understand those amongst us who will not buy a season ticket etc. I decided a while ago that I was going to try and detach myself from the running of the club and to become "just a supporter". My wife would rather me not get a season ticket again for me and the kids as she thinks that we could spend the money more wisely elsewhere. However, I still get the butterflies like when I was a child walking through Burslem park and I see this in my children now, especially for night matches, which are always special at VP.

 

Of course I would like things to be better, but first and foremost, I am a supporter of Port Vale football club and that pride will always remain no matter where we are in the world. I know that it is difficult, but I don't want people to compare the misgivings of NS and the disappointments of an owner who gets some things wrong (and some right), but at least is actually not taking any money out, with the previous cretins who were actually only ever in it for their own agendas.

 

Football is too expensive. Much to my dismay, it is no longer an all inclusive game for the family. I wish this could change, but so long as there are players at PV plying their trade in League 1 (3rd Division) earning over £3000 per week, then I am afraid that it will always come down to the hardcore of supporters paying for that level of player. The inbalance is within the sport, where eventually, if clubs are relatively well run and get big gates, they should and will be towards the top of the football pyramid. Based on Vales support, I would say that we should be a top half League one side, which is exactly where we are, with a hope of dropping on a group of good players at the same time to give us a shot at the Championship.

 

This is where we are. I'm not saying that we should all be grateful, but we should keep our chins up and puff out our chests as PVFC supporters. Dreams do happens and we only have to rewind the clock back two seasons to remember that. My voluntary donation to V2001 is gone, and my anger towards them will not subside, but football is a sport, and during the promotion season, I didn't give it a second thought because I was enjoying the sport, as I did by and large last year (for the first half especially). As a club, with a chequered and proud 138 year history (and let's face it, we have been dogged by turmoil pretty much all the way through!), the things that we will always be remembered for are on the pitch. Four generations of us go and my daughters only ever had one option when it came to football, like I did and I choose to remember the special days with my parents and Grandparents, and I hope that my kids feel the same when they eventually pass it down to their kids. Lets give MA and the lads our support and hope that he can unearth some players to make us that bit better from last year!

[onestepatatime]

Daddy pig, I agree with what you say. I accept that I, along with many others have given in , or are giving in , to the negativity and obvious idiocy of some of the things that come out of the Vale.

 

I love your passion, and believe me there are none more passionate than me when it involves the Vale.

 

My points, along with spunkers and others only serve to show that the most ardent of us are human and yes we want success but we don't want to see the bad old days again either.

 

Sadly there are many who will not frequent Vale Park and Norm's latest faux pax only strengthens some views that why should people other than the 3,000 fanatics pay to go and watch a Team that is backed by someone who is not "on the ball" and very much an amateur in the spheres of Football, opposed to his earlier apparently successful business dealings.

 

Money is indeed at the main root of Vale's incapacity in seeing excellent gates each week but it is also a fact that if a Club is sending out so many strange and hard to understand messages then the fan base will suffer.

 

Your post has brightened my day up strangely as I was beginning to feel oddly unsure about the coming season but as long as there are "nutters", sorry....fans like us then we will get through and see Vale progress.

[vale addict]

The bottomline is Bill Bratt should have never sold life long season tickets then expect future owners of the club to keep paying for them every year.

 

I'm not sure if they were told at the time, but the club (valiant 2001 version) should have stated that the tickets were only ever Valid for the length of the life of Valiant 2001's Port Vale.

[Yukon]

The bottomline is Bill Bratt should have never sold life long season tickets then expect future owners of the club to keep paying for them every year.

 

I'm not sure if they were told at the time, but the club (valiant 2001 version) should have stated that the tickets were only ever Valid for the length of the life of Valiant 2001's Port Vale.

 

That isn't true, if they'd run the club properly and the company hadn't been liquidated, they would still be entirely valid. It was previous mismanagement that has given Smurf the opportunity to end the life long season tickets

 

You're right in hindsight it was a soft idea but the offer was made because the club badly needed cash and people accepted. I think it's a real shame that those who dug deep when the club needed them are losing out so badly- especially as Bratt got his money back, in fact I don't know how he sleeps at night

[melv]

The bottomline is Bill Bratt should have never sold life long season tickets then expect future owners of the club to keep paying for them every year.

 

I'm not sure if they were told at the time, but the club (valiant 2001 version) should have stated that the tickets were only ever Valid for the length of the life of Valiant 2001's Port Vale.

 

Most people understand that once V2001 were taken over that the new owners didnt have to guarantee the life ST.The bottom line as you call it here is the shoddy way in which it was done.Why leave it so late which could mean that many of these people will now not be able to afford a new ST even if it is at half price.The fact that who ever wrote the letter was to bone idle to even put the persons name on the letter is very unprofessional.

[Spunk Trumpet]

A great post from you Daddy Pig. I agree with the majority.

However, unfortunately there are people who will not buy STs and merchandise on the back of this.

The port vale family are a very close knit community. If you attack us we tend to stick together. We have come through many great times and many bad times together.

 

My worry on the Lifers STs though is that these people have mothers, daughters, fathers, sons, grandchildren, aunties, uncles, etc.

More than a handful of people become affected.

Has Norman actually taken into account that this could, and in my opinion will, end up losing the club money?

All it takes is for 1 family member from each of the lifers to become disillusioned with his actions and to stand by their family and hes gaining nothing.

Any more and hes into a loss.

 

If my father had put the best part of 5k in the club, did volountry work at vale most weeks and then got shafted like that, i would stand by him and not bother myself.

Thats not saying i dont love my club, i do, very much. But blood is thicker and in reality there is more to life than PVFC.

 

I could understand the decision if we have a sellout every week. But we have the best part of 13000 empty seats.

 

Dont get me wrong, i will be there on the first day of the season. As always. But Norman must realise that there are only a select few that have unconditional love for PVFC (the lifers being a handful), others need the buzz, need to have an arm around them to tell them that coming to the vale this next year is going to be great. Unfortunately he just keeps acting like the grinch.

 

I travel to the Vale many times a season from over here but il let you in on something. Ive not been since the Rotherham home game just after xmas.

I had flights booked in advance to come over but then all nonsense started about Mickys contract and Norman started spouting that it would not be good to get promoted! For someone like me to hear that, bearing in mind i have to get a taxi, bus, plane, train, tube, train, taxi, in that order, over a period of 6 hours, just to get to Vale Park, i decided that if thats his attitude then why should i bother when everything is so doom and gloom.

And i dare say there is more like me. Hence why we only just broke 3000 for the Crawley game.

 

I follow Barry Hearn and Darragh Macanthony on twitter.

Leyton orient and peterborough chairman.

Avearge attendances Orient 5467, vale 6249, peterborough 6339.

I never hear of them moaning and groaning about attendances. I never hear of them arguing with their own fans on twitter. Infact, go on twitter and you will see both chairman "Building the buzz" for the coming season.

Bury get less than 3000. Their supporters are looking forward to the new season from what i read. One guy says its the best hes felt in 30 years! And why? They are saying all the right things.

And there is many other clubs.

 

Pre season should be full of hope and dreams. Some of us will go down the bookies and take a bit of the 66-1 on us to win the league. Why? Because we all dream it will happen. Many had the 10-1 on promotion 2 years ago when we were days from going bust! Dreams and miracles can happen in football. Look at Costa Rica at this world cup!

 

Unfortunately, the attitude starts and stops with the top man and that is Norman. And the more he comes out with negative crap and making decisions that alienates him from supporters, the more down supporters will feel and one by one they will choose a new avenue to explore on a Saturday afternoon instead of supporting a club close to their hearts.

 

And thats the harsh reality.

[Black and white]

If we are that desperate for the money then smurf can use the undisclosed transfer fees from tomlin, hugill and Davis to put towards it. Smurf should look at himself before he blames anyone else for his mistakes. He is the one who has lost a quarter of season ticket holders, he is the 1 who nearly allowed Adams to leave by failing to offer him a contract untill the very last minute. He is the 1 who allowed some of our players to leave by failing to offer them contract to tie them down earlier (JMW, Hugill). I really hope he can be much more positive next season or I can see a sharp decline when we should be looking to progress following promotion.

[Tosh]

Some great posts on this thread, my own views are that the scrotes should never have made this offer in the first place, they were popular at the time and they would have tugged at the hearts of true fans who could have afforded the deal while they helped to finance their own selfish positions, I know it's easy to say with hindsight but if they needed money that bad when they first took over then alarm bells should have rung, imagine Smurf asking the same now?

 

Admin would have caused a lot of businesses small and large to lose a lot of money and I know from my experience when Wedgwood went into admin how harsh it can be!

 

I think it would have been better had this decision on the 'lifers' been made straight away once the takeover happened, not sure if that's down to Smurf or Paul Wildes? Is it now worth the bad publicity for the sake of saving a relatively small amount of money from good, genuine fans who did what they thought was best for the club at the time? Then no it isn't, IMO.

[Aussie Rules]

Some great posts on this thread, my own views are that the scrotes should never have made this offer in the first place, they were popular at the time and they would have tugged at the hearts of true fans who could have afforded the deal while they helped to finance their own selfish positions, I know it's easy to say with hindsight but if they needed money that bad when they first took over then alarm bells should have rung, imagine Smurf asking the same now?

 

Admin would have caused a lot of businesses small and large to lose a lot of money and I know from my experience when Wedgwood went into admin how harsh it can be!

 

I think it would have been better had this decision on the 'lifers' been made straight away once the takeover happened, not sure if that's down to Smurf or Paul Wildes? Is it now worth the bad publicity for the sake of saving a relatively small amount of money from good, genuine fans who did what they thought was best for the club at the time? Then no it isn't, IMO.

 

Well spoken Tosh

[who was markin him?]

This has been a publicity nightmare and gaffe, will any of those 15 lifers (was it only 15?)get a ST now? Doubtful. Financially the gain is miniscule. So we have lost a small but hardened set of fans who put money into the club before.

I do not know any of the 'lifers' but felt ashamed and disheartened by this. We surely cannot need the cash that bad and its not like we can't spare the seats. Jesus!

It has been a lose lose situation. Lets say the club have 'saved' 4k but think of the goodwill they have lost and the fans they have alienated! I will still buy the usual shirt and odd bit of merchandise and get my ST ticket but some people on principle might not. They have lost more than 4k's worth of self respect over this decision.