Ukraine.

[For Us All]

Act of war or is Putin just trying to protect Russian interests in the Ukraine?

 

Views and opinions please.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26414600

[Santa]

Gas is the new oil basically, isn't it?

 

Russian foreign policy towards Syria and Ukraine is comparable to American foreign policy in the Middle East.

[Jacko51]

Sound familiar?

 

Over ten million Germans live in two of the States adjoining our frontiers. This in itself is sufficiently distressing. It is intolerable for a self-respecting World Power to know that across the frontier are kinsmen who have to suffer severe persecution simply because of their sympathy, their feeling of union with Germany. To the interests of the German Reich belongs also the protection of those fellow-Germans who live beyond our frontiers and are unable to ensure for themselves the right to a general freedom, personal, political, and ideological.

 

The day Putin is slumped against a sandbag wall with a military bullet in his head in the day the world becomes a much better place.

 

Agreed.

 

Spheres of influence - they're a bugger aren't they.

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Putin is just trying in his mind to protect Russian interests; but I wish he were going about it in an entirely different way. Russia has probably had it's eye on the area for some time and now sees this as its chance. i wonder how the people of that area feel as opposed to how people outside that part of Ukraine feel about what the Russians have done?

 

They'll probably pull out in a few weeks having made their point and secured some concessions from the new Ukraine government

[Bea Smith]

Sound familiar?

 

Over ten million Germans live in two of the States adjoining our frontiers. This in itself is sufficiently distressing. It is intolerable for a self-respecting World Power to know that across the frontier are kinsmen who have to suffer severe persecution simply because of their sympathy, their feeling of union with Germany. To the interests of the German Reich belongs also the protection of those fellow-Germans who live beyond our frontiers and are unable to ensure for themselves the right to a general freedom, personal, political, and ideological.

 

The day Putin is slumped against a sandbag wall with a military bullet in his head in the day the world becomes a much better place.

 

 

 

If you are looking for comparisons, how about Kosovo ? Small chunk of a larger nation (Serbia) with a different ethnic majority, militarily taken by NATO - with immoral cluster bombings of Serbian towns in main Serbia and a short but very violent war as well.

You might also consider that despite Putin being a pretty unpleasant character, he entirely holds the moral ground here as those in Kiev broke an agreement that the West helped to get after only about 2 or 3 days and performed a neo-Nazi coup against a legitimate elected government.

Have a look at Grenada in the West Indies too in the 80's, where even Thatcher was livid that the US forces marched in and took over illegally - they didn't even tell her despite British history on the island, and she was furious with Reagan.

Are you having goose or gander for supper ?

 

Might I also add that I certainly don't want Ukraine anywhere near the EU, it isn't part of Europe and never has been and another 65 million potential people coming to rump EU countries is just not on. We don't trade much with this country either although perhaps we could export Nigel Farage there to tell them what they are missing outside the EU.

[Tone]

Gas is the new oil basically, isn't it?

 

Russian foreign policy towards Syria and Ukraine is comparable to American foreign policy in the Middle East.

 

The US no longer has a foreign policy.

 

One significant fact is that, as far as I know, Ukraine is not a haven for terrorism.

[Andy06]

Doesnt sound good this doesnt that russian leader is as loopy as the nk leader throwing his weight around and chucking toys out his pram

 

Let's hope the UK keeps well out if it or we could end up knee deep in ****..

[Bea Smith]

The US no longer has a foreign policy.

 

One significant fact is that, as far as I know, Ukraine is not a haven for terrorism.

 

Not yet. However, it has become one of the major routes for importing vast quantities of hard drugs mainly starting in the period where that nutty peroxide bint was in charge. Amazing theat it is forgotten that 5 years of 'orange revolution' bankrupted the country and continued the corruption that all sides in that place seem to be expert at. The BBC did an expose on it recently that showed Odessa as a main supply route, and virtually no border checks at the Ukraine -Poland and Ulraine-Rumania/Moldova borders - result...floods of heroin gets to western Europe via Poland/Germany (no significant border, both in EU). Lovely.

 

You can be sure that ordinary UK and other western people will have to pay to bail out these countries who only want to join the EU for what they can leech from it. They've already had tens of billions from Russia, now they want it from the West too.

 

Britain should keep well out of it, it can and will end up costing us financially and, God forbid, in other ways. I would hope Obama has the sense to keep his nose out too.

 

The rubbish Doha has regurgitated is standard propaganda stuff and isn't worth arguing against. Not prepared to comment on Kosovo and the other very similar situations I notice.

[who was markin him?]

Ukraine wants closer links with the EU and so Putins has thrown his toys out of the pram.

[who was markin him?]

If you are looking for comparisons, how about Kosovo ? Small chunk of a larger nation (Serbia) with a different ethnic majority, militarily taken by NATO - with immoral cluster bombings of Serbian towns in main Serbia and a short but very violent war as well.

You might also consider that despite Putin being a pretty unpleasant character, he entirely holds the moral ground here as those in Kiev broke an agreement that the West helped to get after only about 2 or 3 days and performed a neo-Nazi coup against a legitimate elected government.

Have a look at Grenada in the West Indies too in the 80's, where even Thatcher was livid that the US forces marched in and took over illegally - they didn't even tell her despite British history on the island, and she was furious with Reagan.

Are you having goose or gander for supper ?

 

Might I also add that I certainly don't want Ukraine anywhere near the EU, it isn't part of Europe and never has been and another 65 million potential people coming to rump EU countries is just not on. We don't trade much with this country either although perhaps we could export Nigel Farage there to tell them what they are missing outside the EU.

 

The US was wrong over Grenada. But the Kosovans were in serious danger from the Serbs of being on the end of a genocide. The Serbs have a track record for that sort of thing. Although at 1 time or another each of the ethnic groups in the balkans has butchered another in the name of religion or nationalism. The Ukrainian Govt was corrupt the (a sizable proportion) of people wanted a change. These protests have been ongoing in 1 form of another for months. To call it a neo-Nazi movement is a bit strong. I agree with the part about the Ukraine joining the EU, closer links is 1 thing, having them join the EU would be totally different. Putin didn't like the fact that the Ukraine wants closer ties to the west rather than join this new Russian led customs union Putin is trying to form.

[For Us All]

Ukraine v USA on Wednesday could be interesting?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Ukraine wants closer links with the EU and so Putins has thrown his toys out of the pram.

 

I reckon there is something in that..he'slaying down a marker and will only back out when he's got some concessions form the new Ukraine govt...otherwise in Russia he will look very weak

[Houston Valiant]

Nasty little man Putin. I don't trust him, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Russians roll into Kiev with the military.

Then we will have another Sarajevo or Kosovo, and the Chechnyans will also be more than happy to weigh in, and make it difficult for Putin.

[For Us All]

When do gas and petrol prices go up?

[Bea Smith]

Please share how the facts I've collated are "rubbish."

 

If you want citations for every sentence I'd be happy to oblige.

 

You made a comparison to the Serb conflict. Excellent. Why would I comment on it? I didn't comment on the Sudetenland, just showed the similarities to this event by stating "sound familiar?".

 

 

There was very little problem with complaints about the elections at first, it only started when Yanukovitch rather sensibly took money from Russia rather than the EU (which saved the poor suffering British public bailing out a country which we have nothing at all to do with and never want to). In other words, those in the West of Ukraine/Kiev elected him but didn't like his policies.

Bit like Thatcher with the Poll Tax riots, but if those had got out of hand, there would have been the British Army stopping any government buildings takeover. The Ukrainian police were too soft - we are meant to feel sorry for the protestors that died and forget that they threw petrol bombs and killed at least 10 policemen. No pictures of the funerals of those policemen of course.

 

Your comparions with Hitler and 30s Germany / Sudetenland are plain silly and childish. Hitler had already said he wanted 'lebensraum' (living space for the German people) and that it was going to come from the East.

What was the Soviet Union has shrunk to a Russia that is far smaller, but still has plenty of room. It just wants to stop mischief-making western interests on its borders, and has no intention of getting all of Ukraine back. Hitler never just wanted the Sudentenland back, but swiftly took ALL of Czechoslovakia as a stepping stone to Poland then further east.

Crimea would be better as an autonomous Russian republic and let the rest of Ukraine exist as an independent country (of squabbling corrupt incompetent leaders who will go bankrupt again and again). If they persecute the majority ethnic Russian population in Donetsk and the East/South East, then they risk an invasion, simple as that - Kosovo revisited.

But just as the public didn't want British involvement in Syria, it wont want our troops dying in a futile intervention in Ukraine howver much Cameron and that little twerp William Haig are itching to get involved. We don't want out money spent there either - why should the EU give Ukraine one single euro ? The Russians have given them billions quite recently to try and stabilise the country and those in Western Ukraine and their neo-Nazi (be in no doubt there is a strong fascist element at play here) friends just took it and laughed.

There is no chance that Russia wants to have troops in Kiev and Lviv and the western-oriented Ukraine areas, they know this would just be a bigger Chechnya - but at the same time they are hardly going to stand by and lose their military facilities in the Crimea, where the vast majority of the population are pro-Russian and hate the current illegal Kiev regime.

Just an aside - imagine Scotland votes to go it alone, and then tells the US to get the hell out of their nucleur bases and that England/Wales?NI air bases and other military facilities have to go - what do you think would happen?