Ukraine.

[For Us All]

Seems to be escalating out of control.

[Andy06]

Was only a matter of time before all hell broke loose

[Warren]

The only way to settle the dispute is to allow the inhabitants to settle it themselves. It seems there is a similarity here to the Irish situation with a significant minority concentrated in one area wishing to be united with a larger country while the majority want independence. There are also worrying similarities to the situation in 1914. Please remember the lies and propaganda that have been fed to us in the past and make it clear that under no circumstances will the UK be involved in the internal problems of the Ukraine.

 

The comment about 1914 is valid, but one hopes that the interests in the west and Russia understand the cost of war better and want to avoid it. At least we haven't got Tony Blair in office consulting God etc and dreaming of his world role.

 

But, as a person who has been to Russia, I feel I understand the Slavic components of that country better now. Putin is not invulnerable, but he was elected by a significant majority and Russians like a tough leader who struts the world stage with authority. They are also a very proud people who can snap to unity very quickly unlike the shambles that is the EU involvement here. They are generally both intelligent and have a recklessness about them. Take a few taxi rides in Moscow to find out about this. They see the world differently that we do in the West and they are tough. Generally, not a people to be messed with unless there is no choice. That said they can be friendly and charming as well.

 

They see the Ukraine as their pitch and they don't like the EU / NATO playing on their pitch.

[Tone]

The comment about 1914 is valid, but one hopes that the interests in the west and Russia understand the cost of war better and want to avoid it. At least we haven't got Tony Blair in office consulting God etc and dreaming of his world role.

 

But, as a person who has been to Russia, I feel I understand the Slavic components of that country better now. Putin is not invulnerable, but he was elected by a significant majority and Russians like a tough leader who struts the world stage with authority. They are also a very proud people who can snap to unity very quickly unlike the shambles that is the EU involvement here. They are generally both intelligent and have a recklessness about them. Take a few taxi rides in Moscow to find out about this. They see the world differently that we do in the West and they are tough. Generally, not a people to be messed with unless there is no choice. That said they can be friendly and charming as well.

 

They see the Ukraine as their pitch and they don't like the EU / NATO playing on their pitch.

 

If they succeed with their ambitions in Ukraine, where will they stop?

 

It seems, from the picture you paint of Russia, they need a strong country somewhere on the planet to stand up to them.

[aspins-revenge]

An outside government supporting an illegal overthrow of a democratically elected government.

 

It's hardly the first time the Americans and West and have done this is it.

 

But if we believe the ongoing reportage, it's Putin and Russian supporting Eastern Ukraine which is to blame.

[For Us All]

Ceasefire?

[davidatpreston]

If they succeed with their ambitions in Ukraine, where will they stop?

 

It seems, from the picture you paint of Russia, they need a strong country somewhere on the planet to stand up to them.

 

Perhaps someone needs to stand up to the evil and warmongering John McCain, who is seriously mentally ill since being in prison in Vietnam. it is easy to see why he is so anti-Russian because of his Vietnam prisoner experiences, but he is personally responsible for what is happening in Ukraine far more than Putin.

McCain and the equally psychotic Victoria Nuland, both of whom visited Ukraine and paid protestors and gave out gifts and support against the legally elected govermenet and fermented the coup that started the current slaughter. Both have blood on their hands, but have somehow blamed Russia.

 

How would Britain have reacted if Russian ministers and leaders had visited Dublin and Belfast in the middle of the IRA trouble years - oh, sorry I forgot, it was American money paying the IRA to help them buy arms then.

The Ukraine would have sorted out its own problems if the US had not interfered and Russia would not have felt it had to intervene, it took Crimea because it has had a naval base there for hundreds of years, in the same way that if Cuba overran the US base at Guantanamo, the US would take it back.

The US does not want peace in Ukraine- they are furious with Hollande and Merkel, as was Cameron last week, did anyone see his anger when asked aout the Minsk talks.

 

The French and Germans know that the Ukraine current regime is a lying, slimy corrupt set of right-wing nutters, and don't trust them either.

Don't be fooled - Poroshenko has been shelling civilians in Donetsk city for months, that is where most of the 5000 deaths have occurred.

Only a week ago, the republican idiot who wants to send more lethal arms to inflame the situation was presented with pictures of Russian vehicles crossing into Ukraine - they were proved to be fakes doctored by that fat freak Poroshenko, and he was furious. but not furious enough to abandon his plan despite the US agreeing the pics were taken in Georgia=a in 2008 (see link below).

 

It suits the US right to keep manufacturing arms and fermenting war - we are in great danger from these scum who have gone very quiet on the Malaysian airline as they know the Ukranians were involved, and now the BBC are asking who killed 100 civilian protestors on the Maidan last spring - of course Russia was lamed at the time, the truth is now coming out.

 

 

Our money is funding this insanity - the US and the Ukranian fascist will drag us into war.

 

http://www.theeverlastinggopstoppers.com/2015/02/senator-inhofe-shows-fake-photos-of-ukraine-war/

 

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4528166/senator-inhofe-shows-fake-photos-ukraine-war

 

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/12/sen-inhofe-blames-ukrainian-parliament-for-falsified-photo/

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html

[For Us All]

I fear that the sanctions plus the drop in oil prices have got to Putin and he seems to be getting desperate.

[Aussie Rules]

If they succeed with their ambitions in Ukraine, where will they stop?

 

It seems, from the picture you paint of Russia, they need a strong country somewhere on the planet to stand up to them.

 

Hi Tone, when I was studying international politics at University one of my Professors came from Eastern Europe.

 

When referring to east-west hegemonies (i.e. U.S.A v Russia) he would always say that the Russians were better than the U.S.A when it came to achieving territorial ambitions. The Russians, he said, used salami tactics - and would do so even when subject to stringently imposed western economic and other sanctions.

 

That was back 1984. So maybe Putin et al is still using such tactics in 2015?

[davidatpreston]

Hi Tone, when I was studying international politics at University one of my Professors came from Eastern Europe.

 

When referring to east-west hegemonies (i.e. U.S.A v Russia) he would always say that the Russians were better than the U.S.A when it came to achieving territorial ambitions. The Russians, he said, used salami tactics - and would do so even when subject to stringently imposed western economic and other sanctions.

 

That was back 1984. So maybe Putin et al is still using such tactics in 2015?

 

 

The problem with this is that it is clear to me, and many others who are neutral or have looked at the context and history of the situation, that Russia does not have any territorial ambitions in Ukraine, other than securing the naval base in the Russian speaking and ethnically Russian area of Crimea.

Putin has said many times he does not want Donetsk and Lugansk to become part of Russia, but clearly wants to protect the population there, who are also 90 per cent ethnic Russians. The areas are quite frankly, an economic liability.

 

Is it so unreasonable that when Poroschenko shells the civilian areas of the city of Donetsk, sends openly Nazi troops not under his direct control, these so-called Right sector and Azov brigades that Russian military rush to stop this insanity?

 

Ukraine should never have been wooed by the west with promises of EU and NATO membership, it is like Russia fermenting a left-wing coup then making military alliances with Mexico, Canada or Iceland.

Putin has a lot wrong with his human rights records, but is entitled to stop NATO threatening his borders- when the Soviet Union disbanded it was agreed that NATO would not expand, except for the reunification of Germany.

 

Is it any wonder that now Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, plus Poland, Bulgaria, Rumania and Hungary have been persuaded to join NATO that Russia feels violated - ALL of these countries have borders with Russia. They could have been EU members but not aligned militarily with NATO, and neutral like Switzerland, as was agreed.

 

Instead, the warmongering elements in the US want to continue expanding with making Georgia,Ukraine and Moldova additional NATO members.

Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, but could have been left to a steady slow progress and eventual membership of the EU, but still getting the gas and fuel supplies it needs from Russia and not allowing western military expansion on its territory.

Instead, the CIA and John McCain and others engineered a coup, admitted by Obama now, and look at the results.

 

In the other countries, like the area of Moldova where there is a large Russian ethnic population, but the US has (so far) not been able to interfere, the situation has been stable for many years - proving that Russia has no designs in taking the area over, similarly in Georgia, where Putin could have taken the country over in 2008, but stopped and withdrew under no pressure, just protecting the ethnic Russian enclaves of south Ossetia and Azberkia.

 

Given the history of ww2, it would do the US good to try and understand the feelings of Russia, but those on the right wing in the republican party only want to provoke and cause mayhem and unrest. They then try to convince the world that the bear they prodded mercilessly is the aggressor, when Russia is doing no more than protecting its ethnic citizens in eastern Ukraine. Rather like we did in the Falklands ?

[davidatpreston]

An outside government supporting an illegal overthrow of a democratically elected government.

 

It's hardly the first time the Americans and West and have done this is it.

 

But if we believe the ongoing reportage, it's Putin and Russian supporting Eastern Ukraine which is to blame.

 

 

Every time the US intervenes outside its own territory, there is a disaster.

 

Ukraine is attracting all the attention, but maybe a look at what has happened in LIBYA, a country in ruins and probably under ISIS control, would be more appropriate. Libya is in pieces now, a failed state - it takes a special talent to make countries and whole populations of millions worse off than they were under Gaddhafi and Saddam, but yes, the good old US does it with ease.

 

IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN.....now YEMEN has no proper government.

 

They support the worlds most repressive regime in Saudi Arabia, where there have been more beheadings by the government than by ISIS.

 

If the reptilian republicans had their way, they would have got involved in SYRIA and IRAN too.

 

I read recently that something over half of US teenagers could not locate any of these places on a map, many not even the right continent, and it seems the politicians there are not much better - millions suffer their stupidity and war-lust.

[For Us All]

"Powerless"?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2960793/Britain-mercy-Putin-s-planes-Russian-war-aircraft-taunt-ex-RAF-chiefs-warns-powerless.html

[Warren]

The Russians are having a public march in Moscow today to mark the anniversary of the removal from office in a revolution of the Russian leaning President of Ukraine which occurred not long before elections were due. Russians see the US and EU as responsible for this and disrespecting Russian influence in a country they consider a satellite with lots of Russian speakers and people feeling they belong to Russia. There has been a total mistake in foreign policy analysis in the West. As a person who has been to Russia it was obvious to me what was going to happen and it has and now the issue is whether Putin takes the whole of Ukraine. Russians are tough, intelligent and have a reckless spirit about them, which gives them solidarity and determination and they are united behind Putin who is single decision maker not needing a committee of hundreds to make decisions. So we have one very serious situation and once again the stupid EU in the middle of it.

[bookworm]

Every time the US intervenes outside its own territory, there is a disaster.

 

Ukraine is attracting all the attention, but maybe a look at what has happened in LIBYA, a country in ruins and probably under ISIS control, would be more appropriate. Libya is in pieces now, a failed state - it takes a special talent to make countries and whole populations of millions worse off than they were under Gaddhafi and Saddam, but yes, the good old US does it with ease.

 

IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN.....now YEMEN has no proper government.

 

They support the worlds most repressive regime in Saudi Arabia, where there have been more beheadings by the government than by ISIS.

 

If the reptilian republicans had their way, they would have got involved in SYRIA and IRAN too.

 

I read recently that something over half of US teenagers could not locate any of these places on a map, many not even the right continent, and it seems the politicians there are not much better - millions suffer their stupidity and war-lust.

can't disagree with that david.

[bookworm]

it was obvious that putin wasn't going to let nato spy on his fleet from Ukraine,and if a drunken krusechiev haden't ceded the crimea to Ukraine noneof this would have happened but as david says with the yanks pulling nato's strings it was bound to happen.IMHO.