Woolwich stabbing/machete attack

[Andyregs]

2 Samuel 12:11-14

[JOHNNYAITCH]

so why is it that Christians use culture from 2000 years back to justify bigotry towards gays in the 21st century ?

 

Good question.

 

personally if I was God and someone was ghost writing a book which was purporting to be my "word" I would take an editorial interest and future proof it. As it is , God is apparently happy for modern followers to decide that the bits which suit their prejudices are timeless and the frankly embarrassing chapters are obsolete or merely "poetic".

 

Ah but you're not God and whatever his purpose was, doing what he did and having it written theway it was suited his purpose...allegedly

 

 

 

humbug

 

Indeed it is

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Acts 8.

 

Deuteronomy 23:1??

 

Anyway, whilst I'd hope that God wouldn't punish any bloke who'd had this done thru no fault if his own doesn't this refer to a eunuch? —"To enter into the congregation of the Lord" means either admission to public honors and offices in the Church and State of Israel, or, in the case of foreigners, incorporation with that nation by marriage...doen't mean they can't get into heaven or anything like that...perhaps as such acts were miore common in those times it was to discourage them..esp parents form doing suich things to their sons?

 

Not a quote that I am particularly familiar with..makes your eyes water

 

http://biblehub.com/niv/deuteronomy/23-1.htm

[Soul Intent]

 

Soul Intent, the Janests inflict pain on many as they believe all living creatures should die naturally without intervention, not to mention the millions of termites they sweep to their deaths every day :)

 

 

Jainist!

 

Birdy, would you accept that there is more of a problem with Muslim integration than say black immigrants (Which aren't Muslim)? If so, why do you think that is?

[For Us All]

Could the Woolwich/Somali Boys be a future problem?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334488/Inside-dark-world-Woolwich-Boys-The-300-strong-gang-Somalis-linked-Rigby-murder-suspect-targeted-terror-groups-looking-jihadists-future.html

[Birdy]

Jainist!

 

Birdy, would you accept that there is more of a problem with Muslim integration than say black immigrants (Which aren't Muslim)? If so, why do you think that is?

 

The bigger the difference the more common ground their is to ponder over. When the black influx came in the fifties, they were of a Christian faith and had lived under British Colonialism for centuries, so in essence the only difference was colour, which many people thought was enough to abuse. When the Indians came in the sixties and seventies, their religion was different as well as their skin colour and culture so more of a difference and more of an excuse to persecute. Along with the Indians (more of the Hindu and Sikh) came Muslims from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh which had a greater list of elements of difference for example the Niqāb which many find odd. Muslims were treated pretty harshly by the Raj, before, during and after partition of India.

 

I am not going to get on with any conservative religious person be it Jew, Christian, Muslim etc but I do get on with moderate folk of faith, of which I know; Christians (of all flavours), Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and non believers. I know no Janists. Down in Stamford Hill you have the Hassidic Jews who don't seem to integrate. They have funny attire, and have close communities. Am I bothered, why should I be?

 

When I have been to India, Malaysia and Thailand, I have seen how folk do get on and in the main people do if educated and tolerant enough.

 

Until we become more tolerant, understand each other and stop bombing the **** out of each other (more state oppression: Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine) then the divide will always be there. If the Israel/Palestine conflict can be put on the right track then I think that is a progressive move. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like changing whilst you have land grab, oppression and right wing attitudes in the area.

 

If there is one thing we have learned over the past hundred years is that retaliation doesn't work, communication does.

[Birdy]

Jainist!

 

Birdy, would you accept that there is more of a problem with Muslim integration than say black immigrants (Which aren't Muslim)? If so, why do you think that is?

 

The bigger the difference the greater the ground their is to ponder over. When the black influx came in the fifties, they were of a Christian faith and had lived under British Colonialism for centuries, so in essence the only difference was colour, which many people thought was enough to abuse. When the Indians came in the sixties and seventies, their religion was different as well as their skin colour and culture so more of a difference and more of an excuse to persecute. Along with the Indians (more of the Hindu and Sikh) came Muslims from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh which had a greater list of elements of difference for example the Niqāb which many find odd. Muslims were treated pretty harshly by the Raj, before, during and after partition of India.

 

I am not going to get on with any conservative religious person be it Jew, Christian, Muslim etc but I do get on with moderate folk of faith, of which I know; Christians (of all flavours), Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and non believers. I know no Janists. Down in Stamford Hill you have the Hassidic Jews who don't seem to integrate. They have funny attire, and have close communities. Am I bothered, why should I be?

 

When I have been to India, Malaysia and Thailand, I have seen how folk do get on and in the main people do if educated and tolerant enough.

 

Until we become more tolerant, understand each other and stop bombing the **** out of each other (more state oppression: Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine) then the divide will always be there. If the Israel/Palestine conflict can be put on the right track then I think that is a progressive move. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like changing whilst you have land grab, oppression and right wing attitudes in the area.

 

If there is one thing we have learned over the past hundred years is that retaliation doesn't work, communication does.

[Birdy]

Jainist!

 

Birdy, would you accept that there is more of a problem with Muslim integration than say black immigrants (Which aren't Muslim)? If so, why do you think that is?

 

The bigger the difference the greater the ground their is to ponder over. When the black influx came in the fifties, they were of a Christian faith and had lived under British Colonialism for centuries, so in essence the only difference was colour, which many people thought was enough to abuse. When the Indians came in the sixties and seventies, their religion was different as well as their skin colour and culture so more of a difference and more of an excuse to persecute. Along with the Indians (more of the Hindu and Sikh) came Muslims from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh which had a greater list of elements of difference for example the Niqāb which many find odd. Muslims were treated pretty harshly by the Raj, before, during and after partition of India.

 

I am not going to get on with any conservative religious person be it Jew, Christian, Muslim etc but I do get on with moderate folk of faith, of which I know; Christians (of all flavours), Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and non believers. I know no Janists. Down in Stamford Hill you have the Hassidic Jews who don't seem to integrate. They have funny attire, and have close communities. Am I bothered, why should I be?

 

When I have been to India, Malaysia and Thailand, I have seen how folk do get on and in the main people do if educated and tolerant enough.

 

Until we become more tolerant, understand each other and stop bombing the **** out of each other (more state oppression: Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine) then the divide will always be there. If the Israel/Palestine conflict can be put on the right track then I think that is a progressive move. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like changing whilst you have land grab, oppression and right wing attitudes in the area.

 

If there is one thing we have learned over the past hundred years is that tít for tat retaliation and violent retribution doesn't work, communication does.

[Birdy]

Sorry, dunno what happened there? Admin feel free to delete two posts.

[Soul Intent]

The bigger the difference the greater the ground their is to ponder over. When the black influx came in the fifties, they were of a Christian faith and had lived under British Colonialism for centuries, so in essence the only difference was colour, which many people thought was enough to abuse. When the Indians came in the sixties and seventies, their religion was different as well as their skin colour and culture so more of a difference and more of an excuse to persecute. Along with the Indians (more of the Hindu and Sikh) came Muslims from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh which had a greater list of elements of difference for example the Niqāb which many find odd. Muslims were treated pretty harshly by the Raj, before, during and after partition of India.

 

I am not going to get on with any conservative religious person be it Jew, Christian, Muslim etc but I do get on with moderate folk of faith, of which I know; Christians (of all flavours), Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and non believers. I know no Janists. Down in Stamford Hill you have the Hassidic Jews who don't seem to integrate. They have funny attire, and have close communities. Am I bothered, why should I be?

 

When I have been to India, Malaysia and Thailand, I have seen how folk do get on and in the main people do if educated and tolerant enough.

 

Until we become more tolerant, understand each other and stop bombing the **** out of each other (more state oppression: Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine) then the divide will always be there. If the Israel/Palestine conflict can be put on the right track then I think that is a progressive move. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like changing whilst you have land grab, oppression and right wing attitudes in the area.

 

If there is one thing we have learned over the past hundred years is that tít for tat retaliation and violent retribution doesn't work, communication does.

 

Indeed. So black people came over and suffered horrendous racism yet still managed to integrate. The problem is not race, it is the religion and it's associated culture which is causing divisions. Is it us causing it? You seem to be suggesting that it is. What do we need to do then, as citizens, to resolve this issue?

 

You should be bothered about divisions and tensions in society, yes.

 

I completely agree that communication is the key which is precisely why the stifling of debate on the matter by casually tarring anyone who has opposing views on the matter as 'racist' is completely unhelpful and is actually hindering progress.

[Birdy]

Indeed. So black people came over and suffered horrendous racism yet still managed to integrate. The problem is not race, it is the religion and it's associated culture which is causing divisions. Is it us causing it? You seem to be suggesting that it is. What do we need to do then, as citizens, to resolve this issue?

 

You should be bothered about divisions and tensions in society, yes.

 

I completely agree that communication is the key which is precisely why the stifling of debate on the matter by casually tarring anyone who has opposing views on the matter as 'racist' is completely unhelpful and is actually hindering progress.

 

I don't think the debate is being stifled. Folk blaming a whole religion on the actions of a minority is racist. I don't care what that religion, colour, sex, gender or socioeconomic group they belong to.

 

The ironic thing here is, that the right wing extremists and the Islamic extremists are too common in thinking for comfort.

[For Us All]

In the old days whenever we had a difference of opinion at work or in the community,we always used to sort out our differences over a drink in the local pub,all part of our culture.

See where the problem is?

[mickyferns]

Indeed. So black people came over and suffered horrendous racism yet still managed to integrate. The problem is not race, it is the religion and it's associated culture which is causing divisions. Is it us causing it? You seem to be suggesting that it is. What do we need to do then, as citizens, to resolve this issue?

 

You should be bothered about divisions and tensions in society, yes.

 

I completely agree that communication is the key which is precisely why the stifling of debate on the matter by casually tarring anyone who has opposing views on the matter as 'racist' is completely unhelpful and is actually hindering progress.

 

I don't think the debate is being stifled. Folk blaming a whole religion on the actions of a minority is racist. I don't care what that religion, colour, sex, gender or socioeconomic group they belong to.

 

The ironic thing here is, that the right wing extremists and the Islamic extremists are too common in thinking for comfort.

Rubbish, muslims are evil end of. They have no acceptance of anyone but them selves, the way they treat women is despicable too. Personally I believe religion is the sum of all evil on the planet anyway designed solely to help people deal with the concept of death so only the weak follow like lambs.

[Birdy]

Rubbish, muslims are evil end of.

How many Muslims do you know, spoke to in depth, had dealings with MF?

[Soul Intent]

I don't think the debate is being stifled. Folk blaming a whole religion on the actions of a minority is racist. I don't care what that religion, colour, sex, gender or socioeconomic group they belong to.

 

The ironic thing here is, that the right wing extremists and the Islamic extremists are too common in thinking for comfort.

 

You are wrong. A religion or ideology is not a race, and it is not wrong to criticise, to any degree, an ideology and that is all I am referring to. Doing this is not a reflection of the individuals who follow the religion, of which they all do to different extents.

 

It isn't nice or desirable, for most people, to be called a racist so the unwarranted and unjustified tarring of people with the 'racism' tag does indeed stifle debate and scares people away from the subject which is precisely some people's aim.

 

Not that you have to answer but you didn't answer me above when I asked what we, as citizens, can do to help integration if indeed it is us which is to blame....?