Woolwich stabbing/machete attack

[JOHNNYAITCH]

IMO it was, and even the substance was flimsy.

 

I believe that you are incorrect..the moral case for example has a smuch substabnce as any moral case

 

As to ther miustaken identity issue..I would rather all the guilty remain alive than one innocent be executed..of course if you are prepared to be wrongly executed just so that we can execute the guilty then pls say so

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Yes they are but we've already gone over them and reached an impasse.

 

For the record, many convicted killers have been let out on parole or freed and gone on to kill again than people who have wrongly received the death penalty due to a case of mistaken identity in the UK and the USA.

 

If you say so..I won't dispute that

 

I would rather all the guilty remain alive and imprisoned for life than one innocent be wrongly executed..of coruse if you're prepared to see your son/daughter/father/mother wrongly executed just so we can execute the guilty then so be it.

[Guppy 4 England]

If by some bizarre twist of fate they aren't found guilty and put in prison, why would they be found guilty and given the death penalty? Unless you are still arguing that the uk should have people put to death with no trial? Either way it's a ridiculous statement.

 

No, its not a ridiculous statement, why shouldnt they be given the death penalty for treason? Soldiers swear to the queen, killing a soldier in an attack like they did is treason. If they by some twist of fate get off with it on a technicality, they live somewhere in the uk ,would you want them next door to you?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

So they (and others) should be executed in case they get off on a technicality? Incredible..kill people cos they might not be convicted in a fair trial

 

Plus we no longer have the death penalty for treason in the UK..not since 1998 I think.

 

No I'd not want them living next door to me but that's a price to be paid/risk to be taken for having a fair and equitable justice system.

[Andyregs]

No, its not a ridiculous statement, why shouldnt they be given the death penalty for treason? Soldiers swear to the queen, killing a soldier in an attack like they did is treason. If they by some twist of fate get off with it on a technicality, they live somewhere in the uk ,would you want them next door to you?

 

This has to go down as the worst argued case for the death penalty I've ever heard. I disagree with what others may have put but can very much understand their point. You have twisted (loop the loop and tied a knot in it) all sense of logic to fit this with your world view.

So should we execute all people charged with murder with out trial just in case they get off? Follow your own logic and we should imprison people for lesser crimes without trial in case they get off. In fact lets get rid of the whole justice system and go back to dunking people. If they come to the surface they are guilty and executed if they drown they are innocent.

[aspins-revenge]

The death penalty for treason? What century do we live in?

 

How about a fair trial, an inevitable conviction for murder, and life-time imprisonment. Job done.

[Paul6754]

If you say so..I won't dispute that

 

I would rather all the guilty remain alive and imprisoned for life than one innocent be wrongly executed..of coruse if you're prepared to see your son/daughter/father/mother wrongly executed just so we can execute the guilty then so be it.

 

IMO is an acronym for "In my Opinion"!!! It is my opinion that in the OVF debate on the death penalty mistaken identity is the only issue with any substance and even that is flimsy.

 

I've lived on this planet for nigh on 60 yrs and never once have I or any of my close family or friends been accused of any crime by the police or come close to prison let alone be incorrectly charged with murder as we are law abiding citizens. I have the utmost confidence that it will not happen in the future.

 

Think with the head not the heart on this issue.

[Andyregs]

 

I've lived on this planet for nigh on 60 yrs and never once have I or any of my close family or friends been accused of any crime by the police or come close to prison let alone be incorrectly charged with murder as we are law abiding citizens. I have the utmost confidence that it will not happen in the future.

 

Must never happen then.

 

You were talking about flimsy arguments just...

[Paul6754]

Must never happen then.

 

You were talking about flimsy arguments just...

 

Never said it had never happened although from the last debate only one hanging was identified in the UK that may have been a case of mistaken identity. With the advent of DNA technology together with improvements in traditional policing methods the chances of it happening in the UK today are virtually zero. Hence now mistaken identity is a flimsy argument against the death penalty.

 

For these two cowards there is no mistaken identity and no reason for them to live, nobody should ever have to look after these animals, other prisoners should not have to be close to these reprobates, they should never have the chance to claim insanity or influence anyone in prison. They should be locked up alone 24/7 with no contact with anyone other than through a hatch in a door, this is more inhumane than doing away with them.

 

This case highlights why the death penalty should be an option in the UK and there is no case of mistaken identity here.

[Andyregs]

Never said it had never happened although from the last debate only one hanging was identified in the UK that may have been a case of mistaken identity. With the advent of DNA technology together with improvements in traditional policing methods the chances of it happening in the UK today are virtually zero. Hence now mistaken identity is a flimsy argument against the death penalty.

 

For these two cowards there is no mistaken identity and no reason for them to live, nobody should ever have to look after these animals, other prisoners should not have to be close to these reprobates, they should never have the chance to claim insanity or influence anyone in prison. They should be locked up alone 24/7 with no contact with anyone other than through a hatch in a door, this is more inhumane than doing away with them.

 

This case highlights why the death penalty should be an option in the UK and there is no case of mistaken identity here.

 

I don't disagree with your feeling towards them at all. And I agree that there is less chance of mistaken identity. These two Waited for the cameras to arrive. DNA is good, but evidence can be tampered with or polluted. Also the cost of the legal process is bigger than the cost of keeping them locked up (there would be less guilty please too). However that isn't the main reason why I'm against it. And we will just go round in circles there anyway. I just like to believe we are more civilised than that, and wouldn't like these people to drag us down. The US is the only western country who still executes people. It amazes me how some people (not yourself) argue how certain societies are uncivilised and yet seem desperate to lower ourselves to their standards.

[For Us All]

Will be interesting to hear how the defence lawyer presents his case?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

IMO is an acronym for "In my Opinion"!!! It is my opinion that in the OVF debate on the death penalty mistaken identity is the only issue with any substance and even that is flimsy.

 

It is my opinion that you are incorrect in that statement

 

I've lived on this planet for nigh on 60 yrs and never once have I or any of my close family or friends been accused of any crime by the police or come close to prison let alone be incorrectly charged with murder as we are law abiding citizens. I have the utmost confidence that it will not happen in the future.

 

I do not share that confidence

 

Think with the head not the heart on this issue.

 

I always do

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Never said it had never happened although from the last debate only one hanging was identified in the UK that may have been a case of mistaken identity. With the advent of DNA technology together with improvements in traditional policing methods the chances of it happening in the UK today are virtually zero. Hence now mistaken identity is a flimsy argument against the death penalty.

 

The fact (that you agree with) that the chances are not zero means it's not a flimsy argument..there is a chance that we will murder someone wrongly accused..I want that chance reduced to zero by not having the death penalty

 

For these two cowards there is no mistaken identity and no reason for them to live, nobody should ever have to look after these animals, other prisoners should not have to be close to these reprobates, they should never have the chance to claim insanity or influence anyone in prison. They should be locked up alone 24/7 with no contact with anyone other than through a hatch in a door, this is more inhumane than doing away with them.

 

I disagree as the death penalty is morally wrong (a far from flimsy argument) but I agree with locking them up 24/7 etc..I have no issues with that, no issues with harsh punishment, hard labour etc

 

This case highlights why the death penalty should be an option in the UK and there is no case of mistaken identity here.

 

I cannot agree..it's morally wrong

 

Plus there is another practical noin-flimsy issue with the death penalty and that is it reduces the likelihood of conviction..where a jury knows that the accused may/will be executed they are less likely to return a guilty verdict..those that object to the death penalty will never convict and you cannot exclude them from jury service just cos of their attitude to the death penalty

[JOHNNYAITCH]

I've lived on this planet for nigh on 60 yrs and never once have I or any of my close family or friends been accused of any crime by the police or come close to prison let alone be incorrectly charged with murder as we are law abiding citizens. I have the utmost confidence that it will not happen in the future.

 

That doesn't answer my question..would you be prepared to see them wrongly convicted and executed (it's always the law abiding who are wrongly convicted so that's no defence) so that we can have the option to execute the guilty?

 

Are you prepared to see innocents killed so that we can execute the guilty?

[JOHNNYAITCH]

Will be interesting to hear how the defence lawyer presents his case?

 

Indeed..surely there defence cannot be '"It wasn't me"? has to be "this wasn't murder it was a war killing" or a mentally impaired defence or "I don't recognise this court" sort of thing