While I can understand the sentiment of fighting till it's mathematically over, surely the Cole sale makes sense long-term. Realistically we're down. He's on (probably) sky high wages and has three more years under contract.

We can't really sustain his wages as a L2 club and when his contract ends he would be nearly 34 (and we've seen how veteran players lose a yard of pace etc).

Surely it makes sense that if we can get a reasonable fee for him now, we have to cut our losses.

Hopefully a sensible club would then use some of the fee to bring in a cheap, young striker with potential (i.e. the Rudgey transfer principle - sell when a player at his peak age for high, bring in someone cheaper to develop). It may even work out better for us long term.

53 minutes ago, robf said:

While I can understand the sentiment of fighting till it's mathematically over, surely the Cole sale makes sense long-term. Realistically we're down. He's on (probably) sky high wages and has three more years under contract.

We can't really sustain his wages as a L2 club and when his contract ends he would be nearly 34 (and we've seen how veteran players lose a yard of pace etc).

Surely it makes sense that if we can get a reasonable fee for him now, we have to cut our losses.

Hopefully a sensible club would then use some of the fee to bring in a cheap, young striker with potential (i.e. the Rudgey transfer principle - sell when a player at his peak age for high, bring in someone cheaper to develop). It may even work out better for us long term.

This is what I hoped we'd become - a club that is clever and shrewd in the transfer market, seeing value in players that others don't.

Instead, it seems we just throw money at big name players that maybe don't have the most hunger/desire.

Jayden Wareham was superb against us for Exeter on Saturday. He's a 22yo and was signed from Reading after only scoring 5 goals in 37 L1 games season. Exeter obviously saw something in him to buy him for a fee and now he has 10 goals in 26 games this season.

These are the profiles our Head of Strategy and Head of Scouting should be pursuing.

1 hour ago, robf said:

While I can understand the sentiment of fighting till it's mathematically over, surely the Cole sale makes sense long-term. Realistically we're down. He's on (probably) sky high wages and has three more years under contract.

We can't really sustain his wages as a L2 club and when his contract ends he would be nearly 34 (and we've seen how veteran players lose a yard of pace etc).

Surely it makes sense that if we can get a reasonable fee for him now, we have to cut our losses.

Hopefully a sensible club would then use some of the fee to bring in a cheap, young striker with potential (i.e. the Rudgey transfer principle - sell when a player at his peak age for high, bring in someone cheaper to develop). It may even work out better for us long term.

Here we go again!🤔

I think the only option here is to sell him - provided that we get a decent offer of course.

 

Wages, an unhappy player, doomed to relegation either way. There's not really any upside in keeping him. He's not going to want to play league two next season. There might be clauses which would mean we get far less in the summer.

 

The club has made a rod for its own back. To have gone from "the numbers are good, we trust the footballing team we've assembled" to admitting you are relegated and selling your best player in around a month is impressive, even for Vale. Even more so when you consider we've played just 4 league games in that time.

 

That's the scale of their <ovf censored> up though. It's spectacular that Moore wasn't gone in November at the latest. The club will have to live with their decisions. The season ticket drop off is a scary thought. It's going to take a big turn around to rebuild the trust that has gone. 

45 minutes ago, valeparklife said:

This is what I hoped we'd become - a club that is clever and shrewd in the transfer market, seeing value in players that others don't.

Instead, it seems we just throw money at big name players that maybe don't have the most hunger/desire.

Jayden Wareham was superb against us for Exeter on Saturday. He's a 22yo and was signed from Reading after only scoring 5 goals in 37 L1 games season. Exeter obviously saw something in him to buy him for a fee and now he has 10 goals in 26 games this season.

These are the profiles our Head of Strategy and Head of Scouting should be pursuing.

I thought exactly the same. Wareham was also dangerous in the first fixture.

Cole was only ever a short-term and expensive fix. A good player for sure but not a long-term option.

If you look at the signings of Tolaj and Paton -  that was the first time in ages we've actually gone and got players with potential and looked to develop them.

Even though only one of the two was a surefire success (and if you are speculating you will never get a 100% success rate) it still generated around £1m of profit. 

So, it worked and yet we haven't continued with that approach. If you're developing players you've got to have a conveyor belt as they will develop at different times. So, we should have already been looking at the replacements for Paton and Tolaj well before Tolaj left. A transfer window ago. Instead we had to rush around and bring in Cole at the last minute and it (presumably) cost a fair bit in wages to do so.

That way (in the JR way we'd have the replacement developing in the wings). Instead, this summer we brought in solely experienced players (Marosi Humphreys, Shipley, Gordon, Waine etc) all of which are at their peak age and will only decline. There wasn't a single one to bring on and develop.

Look at Ethon Archer. Luton signed him in the summer but he's a "project" for him so he's been loaned out this season as they don't think he's ready yet. If they'd have followed our approach of experience only Luton would not have signed him. We needed one or two of those signings ourselves.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have brought in experience for a higher division but wheras someone like Peterborough will persist with their transfer policy, we dipped our toes in (and it even worked) but we still didn't follow through.

We're just so muddled in our approach in my view.

We signed Richards but then loaned him out to Walsall,  only now is he getting a game. Were they wary of him blooming and being recalled like last seasons fiasco? 

1 hour ago, robf said:

I thought exactly the same. Wareham was also dangerous in the first fixture.

Cole was only ever a short-term and expensive fix. A good player for sure but not a long-term option.

If you look at the signings of Tolaj and Paton -  that was the first time in ages we've actually gone and got players with potential and looked to develop them.

Even though only one of the two was a surefire success (and if you are speculating you will never get a 100% success rate) it still generated around £1m of profit. 

So, it worked and yet we haven't continued with that approach. If you're developing players you've got to have a conveyor belt as they will develop at different times. So, we should have already been looking at the replacements for Paton and Tolaj well before Tolaj left. A transfer window ago. Instead we had to rush around and bring in Cole at the last minute and it (presumably) cost a fair bit in wages to do so.

That way (in the JR way we'd have the replacement developing in the wings). Instead, this summer we brought in solely experienced players (Marosi Humphreys, Shipley, Gordon, Waine etc) all of which are at their peak age and will only decline. There wasn't a single one to bring on and develop.

Look at Ethon Archer. Luton signed him in the summer but he's a "project" for him so he's been loaned out this season as they don't think he's ready yet. If they'd have followed our approach of experience only Luton would not have signed him. We needed one or two of those signings ourselves.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have brought in experience for a higher division but wheras someone like Peterborough will persist with their transfer policy, we dipped our toes in (and it even worked) but we still didn't follow through.

We're just so muddled in our approach in my view.

It's so clear that - despite knowing there was a release clause in his contract - we had no successor planning for Tolaj. Kudos to whoever scouted and signed both him and Paton, but the more it unravels the more you feel it was just luck. 

Makes a lot of financial sense to offload now.

We will still have to somehow rustle up 11 players in order to field a side until the end of the season.

Vale games between now and then will be a tough watch and an even tougher sell. 

Some bloke on Facebewk saying George Hall might be going… anyone seen anything? I’ve googled it and can’t find anything

Maybe when we're down to 1 striker Stockley might actually get a game.

Surely the Cole money will be significant - 2.5 year contract at Vale, goal-scoring record elsewhere, still scoring regularly in a team that creates few chances, prime age, multiplier for January desperation. £400,000-500,000? Wouldn't be bad for a free signing merely months ago. 

Edited January 28Jan 28 by 1

11 minutes ago, ValeFanInBrum said:

Some bloke on Facebewk saying George Hall might be going… anyone seen anything? I’ve googled it and can’t find anything

I haven't seen anything either @ValeFanInBrum so it's more than likely a made up rumour although I wouldn't be surprised if he moves on in the Summer.

If I believed all the rumours I’ve heard about players wanting out , we’d genuinely struggle to field a team on Saturday. 

3 minutes ago, Santa said:

If I believed all the rumours I’ve heard about players wanting out , we’d genuinely struggle to field a team on Saturday. 

I take it it's that bad @Santa.

Getting rid of the high earners on long contracts signed by Darren makes sense to me.  They have done OK, Cole and George Hall but they have not excelled.  To get them off the wage bill and if possible bring in a decent transfer fee is good business.  Nothing against either player but a move suits all parties.  

The other Darren signings in the summer have not worked.  Humphreys (good on the ball but not a good defender), Marosi, Headley, Gabriel (neither can defend but are decent going forward), Gordon (done OK), Shipley, Waine, Richards not given a chance despite his promise.  Allied to the fact that we have given long contracts to Shorrock, Plant and Lomax but  not played them, all add up to a tragedy of recruitment.  Darren cannot take all the blame, he sweet talker Carol and used his reputation rather than his track record to gain traction.  The Head of Recruitment can say he got Tolaj and that is the only credit he can claim.  The common thread is a lack of clear strategy, sensible budgetary arrangements by not breaking the bank or giving long contracts and a failure to identify up and coming talent for development.

For lessons on how a club like us can do well look at the past.  John Rudge and Gordon Lee are the best Vale managers in my lifetime.  They signed players from teams like Stafford Rangers, Moor Green, Halesowen, Rhyl, Leek, Gorleston, Hednesford, Alsager and propelled many of those signings into the top flight, but not before they gave us magnificent service.

A total re-set is needed.  Carol is a good owner but easily influenced by people in the game, she needs to find an advisor who is realistic.  Let's hope the re-set process is already underway and that we can clear out more players before the deadline.