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Labour leadership

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Will jezza drag it out? Will momentum let go? Who is best choice for a new leader of the party?

Personally from what I've seen I would go for Jess Phillips . Down to earth, talks sense, devoted Labour..... 

I think jezza will hang on a little although the pressure could be quite heavy and force his hand.

I don't think momentum will loosen their grip, unfortunately.

I think Labour needs a better direction to present to the people and it may take some time to get back in contention..... sadly.

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Momentum are good people trying to better the country for those in need. I don't understand why people hate them so much. some fellow ionthe other thread mentioned angela Rayner and I liked her on the bbc television debates. I am not sure of her politics though and would like to learn more about her before deciding. I don't think jess phillips is devoted to labour at all. From what I can tell, she's devoted to herself. Awful woman. Maybe clive lewis? Ex army many so might get labour away from people accusing us of being unpatriotic.

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17 minutes ago, bobvale said:

Momentum are good people trying to better the country for those in need. I don't understand why people hate them so much. some fellow ionthe other thread mentioned angela Rayner and I liked her on the bbc television debates. I am not sure of her politics though and would like to learn more about her before deciding. I don't think jess phillips is devoted to labour at all. From what I can tell, she's devoted to herself. Awful woman. Maybe clive lewis? Ex army many so might get labour away from people accusing us of being unpatriotic.

Because they wanted jezza as leader and lean to far left.

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Preference for a woman? Age range 40 - 50? Interests, campaigning history, climate change attitude, bridging the gap between metro and left-behind, personal driving force. Restricted to current MPs?

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2 minutes ago, geosname said:

Because they wanted jezza as leader and lean to far left.

Where left is would have to be defined, European left or US left ?

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The whole preference for a woman thing that has surfaced since yesterday is redolent of the identity politics that left /liberal parties (the Democrats in the USA for example) seem so focused on. Despite it ultimately being divisive and a massive turn off for many voters. 

The message seems to be...'Get a woman, a woman of colour, a woman of colour who is gay/trans/ whatever, a woman of colour who is trans and disabled.....' Tick as many of those boxes as possible and hoover up the womens/ ethnic minority/gay etc votes. All those groups and bingo you have yourself a majority.

It is a failed idea. I can't understand why labour are restricting their candidates for leadership to some kind of quota....They seem to be saying 'It's time we had a woman as leader because the other parties have/had women as leaders (with mixed results!)' When actually its the wrong way around...They should pick the best possible leader regardless of gender/colour etc and IF that person is a woman THEN it will be the time for a woman as leader. It is silly what they are doing. But further proof, if it were needed, that thinking and the current bunch who run the show are completely useless. 

I do not vote labour....but I do feel it is important for our country that we have a viable choice. With Corbyn and his cronies that hasn't been the case. Labour needs to get it's act together. stop the momentum codswallop and appeal once again to a broad church of working people. 

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27 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Where left is would have to be defined, European left or US left ?

Probably more like USSR left. It is clear to many people that McDonnell who is the puppet master behind this and his ideas looked scary back in the 70's. (He probably still has a Che poster on his wall)  To me he is much more off-putting than his hapless front man. Corbyn has never looked comfortable as leader. I suppose he comes across as someone who had it thrust upon him which, in a way, it was. 

Momentum stick in throats because they seem to be in bed with any anti-establishment organisation they can align themselves to. It was sent up years ago in Citizen Smith.  They simply come over as hating their own country. Socialism doesn't have to be unpatriotic...though that seems to be what has developed in Labour. In the country  I live now patriotism and socialism are completely compatible. This cosying up to Hamas and the IRA and whoever else has to be eradicated from the labour hierachy or it will never be electable again. They will end up sitting on their own like The Popular People's Front of Judea.

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Politics is in a pretty bad place at present for me. The examples set by Trump and Johnson indicate that you can get away with nasty slurs and lies, media manipulation, law breaking perhaps, and scapegoating all and sundry - and still win. Voters seem to care little for integrity or honesty any longer. The ends justify the means perhaps? That disturbs me.

Yes, I know, there are many issues and problems in leadership on the opposition benches but Johnson and his liars are now in government and represent us and our values in government, both at home and abroad. I'm not saying there's necessarily a better alternative but I'm embarrassed to be represented by that buffoon.

In terms of Labour, I've always subscribed to the view that to win they need to conquer the centre ground. I've had this ding dong before (often with Mr H) and the election results bear out my stance. 

I understand fully why people on the left go that way. It often happens when the country goes far right. Foot was a reaction to Thatcher, Corbyn an antidote to austerity. And I'm pleased that there are people in this country who are prepared to speak out for those at the bottom of the pile and bang to drum for those on the streets, using food banks, suffering from universal credit cuts and all the rest. A civilised country, one of the richest in the world, should not treat people like this while the top section of society continue to coin in billions. So I can see why it happens.

The other salient point is that society has changed. We don't have as many blue collar workers now. The numbers in unions have fallen.  Manufacturing has gone south.Those who describe themselves as working class have fallen. More and more think of themselves as middle class and upwardly mobile and these people (hard working people. Lol!) also need support and encouragement. There is nothing wrong with being ambitious and hard working and wanting the best for your family and their future.

Wilson manged it. So did Blair. Smith would have done too. But many of the other Labour leaders were perhaps too attached to the left and not as charismatic or as intelligent (sorry to use that term but it's generally true). They lacked leadership skills and didn't look as good in the media. That last point might seem laughable but perception can be more important than reality. We don't have presidential elections here but performance at the dispatch box and in front of the cameras are crucial - when the eyes of the public are on you. 

Labour needs to reflect on this shocking result and ponder on the above. It should go for the best candidate, a very intelligent, articulate and quick-thinking person. But above all, someone who will move the party towards the centre and unite the two wings with realistic, carefully costed policies. 

An executive needs a powerful opposition to hold it to account.

My fear is that Corbyn will hold on until he can anoint another person on the left of the party. But there is virtually no-one on that side with any of the qualities I've listed above. With an increased and more left wing membership these days I suspect they could be in the wilderness for some time to come. The lessons from 83 have not been absorbed.

It's frustrating for a centre/left voter like me because I feel I'm being let down. I agree, Caroline Lucas has been quite impressive and Nicola Sturgeon too. But if Labour had someone like John Smith at the helm it would be far stronger and 100% more popular and trusted.

I would very much like to see a system of PR and I've been saying that for nigh on 40 years. I don't mind coalitions working together and sharing common values. This silly system that gives carte blanche to any government to do what it wants on much less than half the votes on a 2/3rds turn out is plainly silly. But then we've seen a lot of silly things happen recently.

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Keir Starmer seems the only option for me.

Problem is, Corbyn and Momentum have left Labour in such a sorry state, having lost all of their traditional heartlands, the next Leader is likely to fulfill a Kinnock role; re-defining perceptions of the Party to make them more palatable to the vast swathes of voters who currently wouldn't touch them.

I don't know who will take the hit; somebody has got a massive job on their hands. If Momentum and the Corbynistas which have monopolised the membership get their way and elect Corbyn 2.0 (but this time, it's a woman!) then we may be looking at genuine one-party politics for a generation, especially if Scotland have indyref2.

Until Labour realise that people in working class de-industrialised areas want tighter immigration controls, a return to traditional social and community values, and some understanding of their concerns outside of the London bubble, they're destined to continue to put up showings like this. People genuinely aren't that fussed about the 'climate emergency', 'taxing the wealthy', and 'nationalising all industries'. Whilst yes, none of us can disagree with most of it, its just not a priority.

Hopefully Brexit will now be resolved which should clear the political landscape for other issues; but what Labour, I hope, will realise, is despite Miliband and Corbyn banging on about the dire state of the NHS and the tax-dodging elite for the last 9 years, it simply doesn't resonate or feautre highly on voters' priorities.

Big 6 months coming up for the Labour Party. Nail it, and get a sensible pragmatist who can effectively nail the Conservatives for their mistakes, whilst re-positioning Labour as representative of the working class (by listening to their concerns about social issues), and then they can have a reasonable tilt in 2024.

If they balls it and Thornberry or Rayner get it, and its Corbyn-project extended and trying to bully people into thinking the same way as then, then we might as well settle in for the longest uninterrupted run of power by one Party in this Country's parliamentary history.

Edited by Joe B

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Sir Keir Starmer is the favourite to lead the party at odds of 2/1 followed by Rebecca Long-Bailey 4/1,Angela Rayner 7/1,Yvette Cooper 8/1,Jess Phillips 8/1,Emily Thornberry 12/1,Lisa Nandy 16/1,Clive Lewis 25/1and David Lammy 66/1

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1 minute ago, For Us All said:

Sir Keir Starmer is the favourite to lead the party at odds of 2/1 followed by Rebecca Long-Bailey 4/1,Angela Rayner 7/1,Yvette Cooper 8/1,Jess Phillips 8/1,Emily Thornberry 12/1,Lisa Nandy 16/1,Clive Lewis 25/1and David Lammy 66/1

I beg, Labour, pick Starmer.

A knighted former QC with a clean record. He's not perfect but will look very polished compared to Johnson and will take Labour back on the path to electability.

If they balls this up and go for someone else then its curtains.

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Not much choice there for me.

What has amazed and staggered me in the election campaign is how very few politicians (on ALL sides) seem unable to understand the intricacies of the topic under debate and make it up as they go along. The total misunderstanding of our immigration policy was one example. But to put no finer point on it, many of them seem as thick as two short planks. Labour MPs never said what they should have said because they didn't have a grasp of the topic and neither did the Tories and so they made it up. But they were a bit posher and so didn't appear quite as bad!

Starmer is perhaps the best of an uninspiring bunch.

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5 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I beg, Labour, pick Starmer.

A knighted former QC with a clean record. He's not perfect but will look very polished compared to Johnson and will take Labour back on the path to electability.

If they balls this up and go for someone else then its curtains.

Although Starmer is the favourite,the party are apparently under extreme pressure to elect a female leader for the first time?

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That would be daft.

We all know, you should have the best person for the job. End of. Black. White. Man. Woman. Disabled. Able. Meat eater. Veggie. Vale supporter. Stoke s No. Scrub that last thought, but you know what I mean.

I think the cupboard is bare although I don't know enough about all the Labour MPs to make a considered choice.

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20 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I beg, Labour, pick Starmer.

A knighted former QC with a clean record. He's not perfect but will look very polished compared to Johnson and will take Labour back on the path to electability.

If they balls this up and go for someone else then its curtains.

I think the problem Labour have is that its membership has been infiltrated by a lot of members on the extreme left wing who will want to have another leader like JC.

In much the same way, the Tories have been swamped by ex-UKIP and some ex Brexit members and have pushed the Tories further right.

I'm quite sorry in many ways that Parliament has lost a number of good "centre ground, independents" shall we say. I think politics is the poorer for losing the likes of Wollaston.

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Jess Phillips is not a likeable person in the slightest. She would be a disasterous leader for labour.

 

Thornberry is useless.

 

Yvette Cooper would have potential.

 

Keir Starmer would be a safe ish bet but his brexit stance is very out of touch and it is rumoured to be him and other senior pro-remainers who have pressured Corbyn from within to form their horrendous brexit policy.

 

I think they should appoint a leaver, or at least someone who can talk a good game like May did at first.

 

It's not a particularly inspiring list.

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40 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I beg, Labour, pick Starmer.

A knighted former QC with a clean record. He's not perfect but will look very polished compared to Johnson and will take Labour back on the path to electability.

If they balls this up and go for someone else then its curtains.

Labour need someone their traditional voters can relate to and one who can reciprocate...... that's not starmer in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Jess Phillips is not a likeable person in the slightest. She would be a disasterous leader for labour.

 

Thornberry is useless.

 

Yvette Cooper would have potential.

 

Keir Starmer would be a safe ish bet but his brexit stance is very out of touch and it is rumoured to be him and other senior pro-remainers who have pressured Corbyn from within to form their horrendous brexit policy.

 

I think they should appoint a leaver, or at least someone who can talk a good game like May did at first.

 

It's not a particularly inspiring list.

If a leader needed to be likeable Boris would have lost..... but then so would jezza..... and sturgeon....  I would have suggested believability but again all 3 would have lost.

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6 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Jess Phillips is not a likeable person in the slightest. She would be a disasterous leader for labour.

 

Thornberry is useless.

 

Yvette Cooper would have potential.

 

Keir Starmer would be a safe ish bet but his brexit stance is very out of touch and it is rumoured to be him and other senior pro-remainers who have pressured Corbyn from within to form their horrendous brexit policy.

 

I think they should appoint a leaver, or at least someone who can talk a good game like May did at first.

 

It's not a particularly inspiring list.

With the UK set to leave the EU before Labour elect their new leader the whole remainer v leaver debate is irrelevant. Other than that I agree with your analysis of those candidates.

We'll have to see, Cameron came from nowhere as a bit of an outsider if I remember rightly. So did Corbyn and Miliband for that matter.

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