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Labour leadership


geosname

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35 minutes ago, Emile said:

Starmer would be a disaster as he is pro remain and the reason they pushed for remain in the first place. The centre ground is not the way forward for the Labour party. 

Do you believe that Brexit and the remain/ leave split will still be an option at the next general election. I imagine that the liberals may try to push to re-join (not that the EU would want us back) but I would definately hope that in 5 years and with such a huge majority we could at least put Brexit behind us all. The last we want is another election with boris saying lets get Brexit done and I mean it this time.

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I am not  a Labour supporter but looking in from the outside Corbyn is very popular within his party . Whilst they can appoint him as Leader they cant convince the country to elect him as PM. Some of that is down to his personal qualities other his beliefs. If the party appoint similar as a replacement then the cycle will just repeat its self.

Corbyn is driving the party on the road  to oblivion . It is the destination that needs changing , not just the driver. As vilified as he is now Tony Blair knew that a left leaning middle ground  Labour party was the route to power. The alternative is a protest party always in opposition.

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51 minutes ago, The man in the pub said:

I am not  a Labour supporter but looking in from the outside Corbyn is very popular within his party . Whilst they can appoint him as Leader they cant convince the country to elect him as PM. Some of that is down to his personal qualities other his beliefs. If the party appoint similar as a replacement then the cycle will just repeat its self.

Corbyn is driving the party on the road  to oblivion . It is the destination that needs changing , not just the driver. As vilified as he is now Tony Blair knew that a left leaning middle ground  Labour party was the route to power. The alternative is a protest party always in opposition.

You are right.

But Labour don't learn from history and continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

You have to try and ride two horses, as Wilson and Blair did. Agreed.

The issue with Blair was that he didn't do enough for the neglected communities of the midlands and the north and then Tory austerity made things far far worse. The Tories then managed to persuade people that it was all the fault of the EU and we are where we are.

 

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It is in my opinion that there are several reasons and that no one in particular is responsible for labour loosing . I don't think one on there own would have lost them the elecetion but when there are 4 or so all at the same time then that is why they suffered so, although as I have already written they matched the amount of votes they got when tony blair won once.

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Has to be Rayner for me. She has the right sort of working class relatively clean background. The media can’t beat her with the IRA/terrorist stick.

Starmer strikes me as a red Tory type and although some of the older generation might want somebody like him, Labour needs to continue to try and gain younger voters as they are quite literally the future. The voting stats/polls showed people under 30 massively backed labour all over the show and had the boomers not voted for the Nasty Party then we’d have a Labour government. 

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 I would have thought it was as plain as a pikestaff by now that the labour party turned its back on the working class heartlands a long while ago. There is ample evidence to back this up. The new liberal elite lefties they want to woo are not the under thirties from Stoke on Trent....especially poor and unemployed ones.  Nope its middle-class socialists they are after, who they are appealing to. And students with their heads stuffed with liberal globalist propaganda instead of a proper education. I know this because I have spent much time working in the education education education (if that sounds like brainwashing its because it is) industry encouraged by Tony Blair.

The Labour Party of today, together with it's media supporters like Owen Jones and Paul Mason, openly despise the working class. Especially the white working class. Corbynite Mason is on record as saying that Labour should ignore those he cruelly caricatured as the 'ex-miner sitting in the pub calling migrants cockroaches' and  that the northern working class were a lost cause.Most of the people surrounding Labour now have never done a days proper work in their lives. they simply have no more understanding of working class issues than a Tory....sometimes less. Heck, most of the new lot probably went to the same schools and unis as the opponents they label 'toffs'.  

The reason Labour lost is quite straight-forward and would (should) take more than a new user-friendly image to fix. They abandoned their old  voters and didn't care about their opinions. They took the votes from places like Stoke for granted and didn't try because they felt they would simply carry on like sheep. Then when they realised they may need them again they bussed in some boots on the ground to finesse the natives. Too little too late. 

Up in Blyth valley another old labour stronghold fell. Because the veteran Labour MP, Campbell stood down. why?  because he felt bound to uphold the wishes of his constituents and wouldn't vote to delay Brexit. He was a committed socialist of the genuine sort and a veteran of the Miner's Strike. Yet he was branded  a 'Scab' by a luvvie  privately educated Oxford graduate journalist for the Guardian. 

Voting over and over for the same people, irrespective of how well they represent you, is not a good move.Its like staying with the same bank , insurance or internet provider for years.  You get taken for granted and the best deals go to new customers.Voting Tory, breaking the habit pf voting red whatever, is extremely sensible. It means that they will have to try harder to get your votes back. They need to try harder too. They deserves to lose.

 

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5 hours ago, TheSage said:

You are right.

But Labour don't learn from history and continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

You have to try and ride two horses, as Wilson and Blair did. Agreed.

The issue with Blair was that he didn't do enough for the neglected communities of the midlands and the north and then Tory austerity made things far far worse. The Tories then managed to persuade people that it was all the fault of the EU and we are where we are.

 

It did have more than a tad to do with Labour .....and the note they left in the Treasury on the day the Tories took over 'There is no money'. 

The Eu is also to blame of course. Austerity isn't a Tory policy so much as an EU one imposed on member states to shore up the Euro (even though we are not in the Eurozone we have to help shore it up) and the failing economies that abound within it. Greece, Spain, Italy, France all have huge levels of unemployment...especially among the young....and high taxes.And zero hours contracts and low incomes and foodbanks and homelessness. Its a socialist country but the economy is crippled because of the EU controls on it (when I discussed this with my local Mayor he said 'why do you think Brussels wants you to stay? To help Germany pay the bills!) 

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42 minutes ago, Barrierleaner said:

It did have more than a tad to do with Labour .....and the note they left in the Treasury on the day the Tories took over 'There is no money'. 

The Eu is also to blame of course. Austerity isn't a Tory policy so much as an EU one imposed on member states to shore up the Euro (even though we are not in the Eurozone we have to help shore it up) and the failing economies that abound within it. Greece, Spain, Italy, France all have huge levels of unemployment...especially among the young....and high taxes.And zero hours contracts and low incomes and foodbanks and homelessness. Its a socialist country but the economy is crippled because of the EU controls on it (when I discussed this with my local Mayor he said 'why do you think Brussels wants you to stay? To help Germany pay the bills!) 

I've never read so much rubbish on this site - and I've read a great deal if you consider the outpourings from the likes of REP.

Let's take the 'no money' point first; it was a poor attempt at a joke along the lines of the one the Labour politician (can't remember his name) made about Corbyn in front of his Tory supporting mates who then proceeded to make political capital with it.

Of course, that's what politicians, especially Tory politicians, do - they're opportunists. That's why they couldn't believe their luck when a global financial crisis happened on Gordon Brown's watch. It was easy to snipe from the sidelines and wait for the election - I'd like to have seen what Cameron would have done. Oh but we did didn't we? Ten years of austerity, mostly needless as it happens as Boris blows everything that was saved on a post election giveaway.

As to the EU, let's not forget they attempted to protect the British economy during the ERM fallout in 1992. All the EU member states were as vulnerable as we were in 2008 and given the interconnectedness of the world economy no one was immune. Yes, our leaving the EU leaves them with a problem as we were a net contributor, but it's not insurmountable - their 27 nations act in solidarity with one another when the going gets tough. Now we're all on our own who is going to help us out? Uncle Donald, mister America First? I doubt it hugely.

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9 hours ago, Howjy04 said:

Phineas Barnum or invite David Milliband back to regain some credibility.Labour may have a semblance of a Party by the 2029 GE.

Labour were badly wounded in the GE consequence of its inability to focus on the 'Brexit Elephant in the room' and that, in my opinion, was down to Corbyn. He should have cleared his desk immediately thus giving clear air for the 'Party to lick its electoral wounds and appoint a temp leader. Corbyn hanging around will serve no useful purpose whatsoever. In fact, it will prolong the agony of it all and impede rehabilitation.  

 

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