Brexit again...

[Fosse69]

He probably achieved what he thought he wanted to secure a remain vote but therein lay the problem, the man was a fool who had no concept of the views of the electorate and assumed he'd get a straightforward majority for remain and thus put the long standing Eurosceptics of his party back in their box. He miscalculated spectacularly and didn't recognise the feelings and issues regarding immigration amongst large sections of the electorate across all parties and across the EU. What he should have done was make immigration into the EU an issue and tried to get some movement on that. Had, say, an EU wide points system been proposed from a British initiative things could have worked out differently and I think he could have readily gained support from nations such as Italy, Greece, Spain, France and some of the former eastern bloc countries, especially Poland. The German people would have been supportive but I'm not sure about Merkel at that time - bet she would now though.

I blame Cameron's Upper Class Twit Of The Year incompetence for this whole affair which, in my view, will be disastrous in the long term.

But nothing on EU freedom of movement? Immigration from outside the EU is and was under our control. Refugees are a different matter and a consequence of warfare and civil strife, action at source is the only control.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

But nothing on EU freedom of movement? Immigration from outside the EU is and was under our control. Refugees are a different matter and a consequence of warfare and civil strife, action at source is the only control.

You are correct but he was never going to get support for restricting freedom of movement within the EU, it's a fundamental of the single market. The USA have always had it for the same reason and it's been a cornerstone of their economic strength along with a single currency, although making that a success is much harder for the EU as it involves unifying historically disparate economies and sovereign governments.

Where he flopped was in not recognising that and being more politically savvy and seeking some changes to other immigration issues. Unfortunately, as I've said many times previously, all our governments since 1945 have had open immigration policies for various reasons but mostly economic ones and to hell with the social issues and the opinions of the indigenous population. Well, it's finally come back to bite them and all of us.

I'm not particularly anti-immigration but I am wary of mass immigration of people who do not share European values and culture and who are not prepared to adopt those values. Cameron, in my view, should have played on that and sought support from within the EU, it would have been far more politically wise and would have reassured many people who voted leave based largely on immigration issues. He could, of course, have also done something about non-EU immigration to the UK but like all previous UK governments chose not to and Theresa May's government is doing the same. Why? Because they plan to offset the fall in EU free movement with non-EU immigration to change our population demographics and control wage growth by avoiding a labour shortage. A whole new debate, I know, but relative to Cameron's failure in keeping us in the EU.

[philpvfc]

Cameron didn’t fail to keep us in the EU. The EU managed that themselves, they could have looked to reform but no, their arrogance failed to see that nations are not happy with a lot of what it has become and to me it seems they are still acting the same as other countries other than ourselves are looking for change. We are leaving but the EU has to change if it doesn’t want other countries to follow the same path.

[Davebrad]

both eu and non eu immigration can be controlled by doing the same as Australia, Canada, and to a certain degree the USA, have a sponsorship/trade requirement, ie if you've a trade/profession we want you can come.

Refuges allow a certain number in, but control as above.

We've all seen the pictures of the refuges, but given they risk people traffickers to get across the Med. then trek over 5-6 countries to Calais, risk death or mutalation clinging to trains or lorries to get to the UK!!! Why?

Not sure how its worded but aren't refuges allowed into the first safe/neutral country, then its up to the eu to divide them amongst the other 26 eu countries from Greece... there was the case of allowing so many children into the UK, where 22-24yrs olds were sneaking in as under 16's, these were why immigration was the main reason to pull out of the eu...

Then the security problem comes into it, how to identify potential troublemakers,

[For Us All]

Read the article. It's sensationalist and says the highlighted issue of sanitary products MAY not be included because as we voted to leave we will not have any input, ie, we aren't in the member states any more so unsurprisingly we don't get an input.

If we were still a member we'd have an equal democratic input like everyone else.

The issue of VAT on sanitary products is an international issue and there has been campaigning to zero rate them, something I've been a part of. Similar to the bee killing insecticide issue.

These issues will crop up from time to time whether we're in the EU or not. What about Gideon and his fiasco regarding VAT on cold and warm pies? A VAT related pig's ear nothing to do with the EU.

The economic benefits of EU membership far outweigh piffling issues such as 5% VAT on tampons or even the Common Fisheries Policy which is sensationalised but only effects 0.04% of UK employment. Thatcher destroyed a 500 times more jobs than that in a few years and yet in some quarters was made out to be a hero for doing it! Stoke-on-Trent has never recovered from Thatcher's traitorous vandalism of UK industry and now, somehow, much of its population seem to blame our current situation on the EU.

 

The 'Iron Lady's' take on the EU.

 

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Margaret Thatcher was a witch who saw the mass of the UK population as chattel to be used by the capitalist class as cheap labour. I don't think I ever agreed with a word she aid about anything. A horrible, horrible person who created the underclass and purposely destroyed British industry, sold off our national assets and filled the boots of the already very wealthy at the expense of the working class.

And I'm a person who believes in a mixed economy with a thriving private sector, I'm hardly a left wing radical.

"There's no such thing as society" said Thatcher which says all you need to know. If she dismissed the population of her own country with such disdain then she'd hardly agree with an organisation for a wider society.

[For Us All]

Margaret Thatcher was a witch who saw the mass of the UK population as chattel to be used by the capitalist class as cheap labour. I don't think I ever agreed with a word she aid about anything. A horrible, horrible person who created the underclass and purposely destroyed British industry, sold off our national assets and filled the boots of the already very wealthy at the expense of the working class.

And I'm a person who believes in a mixed economy with a thriving private sector, I'm hardly a left wing radical.

"There's no such thing as society" said Thatcher which says all you need to know. If she dismissed the population of her own country with such disdain then she'd hardly agree with an organisation for a wider society.

 

She said pretty much the same about the EU as Skinner though.

[jimbo57]

Margaret Thatcher was a witch who saw the mass of the UK population as chattel to be used by the capitalist class as cheap labour. I don't think I ever agreed with a word she aid about anything. A horrible, horrible person who created the underclass and purposely destroyed British industry, sold off our national assets and filled the boots of the already very wealthy at the expense of the working class.

And I'm a person who believes in a mixed economy with a thriving private sector, I'm hardly a left wing radical.

"There's no such thing as society" said Thatcher which says all you need to know. If she dismissed the population of her own country with such disdain then she'd hardly agree with an organisation for a wider society.

 

how many elections did she win?

[SourceOfTheTrent]

how many elections did she win?

 

Hitler won an election! Plus a vote of approval that there's no evidence it was fixed!

[SourceOfTheTrent]

She said pretty much the same about the EU as Skinner though.

 

For different reasons and I disagree with them both.

[SuperValiant1876]

how many elections did she win?

 

I thought someone as proud to be British as you are would not be arguing for Thatcher, why are so many Brexit voters so confused?!

[jimbo57]

I thought someone as proud to be British as you are would not be arguing for Thatcher, why are so many Brexit voters so confused?!

 

 

so you think Maggie was anti British?

Maybe youre the confused one.

[SuperValiant1876]

so you think Maggie was anti British?

Maybe youre the confused one.

 

For someone who lived in the good old days and in SOT to be championing the lady that started the decline of the North, privatised everything, destroyed unions and worst of all took milk of good white British kids is astounding. However, she agreed with you on the EU so she is now a legend eh?

[jimbo57]

For someone who lived in the good old days and in SOT to be championing the lady that started the decline of the North, privatised everything, destroyed unions and worst of all took milk of good white British kids is astounding. However, she agreed with you on the EU so she is now a legend eh?

 

 

maybe you just dont like results.

Maggie won 1979, 83, 87 general elections.

Leavers won the vote to leave the corrupt eu

[SuperValiant1876]

maybe you just dont like results.

Maggie won 1979, 83, 87 general elections.

Leavers won the vote to leave the corrupt eu

 

You've stopped making sense now. Putin just won another election, I can only assume you are a fan of his too.